Who Should Pay?

[Xena]

Hello smart & fashion conscious people! I am new here and have a very pressing query: Who should pay? The guy or the girl? Are there any hard & fast rules? In my (not so humble) opinion, I believe the guy should always pay unless:
1. It is his birthday.
2. The girl is dragging him somewhere he does not want to go.

What do you all think?

[Raven]

Your write the guy should pay. Unless the rules are as stated in your query. But I like to add the dutch aspect. were you both come to agreement on. And if your not dating and just friends guying paying everything is big no no.

-thanks good post

-Out

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Know My Fury, Its As Black As My Wing and As Cold As The Shadows...

[Xena]

Raven-- Thank you, I am glad you agree, coming from the male perspective! And I was only referring to romantic relationships. I agree that with male-female friendships the guy should not have to pay all the time, it should be 50/50. Now tell me, do you pay all the time (with the noted exceptions)?

[samthesham]

Both of you have fail in your commentary to address a number of mitigating factors in who should be responsible to pay. First off, it is not quite as easy, Xena, as you have compartmentalized the ONLY two times in which a woman should pay. Are those your ideal rules or the rules of fair play in which you are currently involved?

When both respective members work, there needs to a more amenable approach. And that approach clearly does not exist with your little 2-tiered model you have set forth.

The guy should not always pay just because you think that is the way it should be. This is the late 1990's and most people are working contributing members of society. Their dating should reflect that. If you are married, obviously this commentary should be irrelevant because the guy can always pay as long as both contribute their earnings into one account--regardless of who makes more.

There are situations in which it is certainly more appropriate, I will agree, for one person to pay over the other. But I always hesitate when I see blanket statements made because they fail to address the entire picture.

[RedAaron]

OHH,
Folllow rule one when rule 17b-432 applies? Then jump through the waiver order #18342..

It doesn't have to be that complicated.

I think, the guy should pay, unless the girl is uncomfortable with that, and she offers to chip in....

[samthesham]

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that your timing is rather curious indeed, Xena, with your little posting.

What about this question: When men should decide to give women flowers periodically--what do others think women should give to men on occasion. Flowers, nothing, a CD or other item, something special he likes, or nothing at all, or other things entirely???

[Xena]

Samthesham-- What a passionate response! I do not understand what you mean about "timing" though in your second response, can you please explain?

Re: what a woman can give a man as a little gift, the possibilities are endless, here is a sampling: cards, CDs, ties, socks, underwear, cologne, suspenders/braces, massage oil, etc. Wouldn't you like to get these types of things instead of flowers? Are you a man who believes in giving flowers? From your speech re: who should pay, you seem a little bitter.

[samthesham]

Your "Timing" in commenting was just something I indeed found particularly noteworthy to comment upon.

I think that you, Xena, are right on target with your remarks on possible items. It is also interesting that you mention "suspender/braces"--I also agree with you here. Actually, all of your gift ideas are good ones.

If I sounded bitter, that certainly was not my intent. I do recognize, however, that when conversing electronically that one's true sentiments are not necessarily as accurately reflected as they may have been intended.

[Jackal]

What a great topic.

I believe the guy should pay.
I took out the last girl I dated quite often. In every case but one, I paid for movies, dinner, club cover charges etc.

I just come from the belief that the guy pays for the date and does the little things so his date feel special.

For example, one ought to open the door for his date and should help her with her chair when they're being seated.

It's not that women are the weaker sex. Cleary they can get the door for themselves -- of course they can get their own chair.
Many women work and get paid well and could easily pay their own way...

I just believe chivalry isn't dead -- at least when the Jackal is going out with a gal.

But I digress.

After a couple has dated for a few months and the relationship has become more serious perhaps there will be occassions when both parties will pay.

For example, perhaps the boyfriend buys dinner at a romantic restaurant and the girlfriend buys tickets to a movie.

I don't think this change is a must and most guys shouldn't expect a woman to pay. But I know it was a pleasant surprise when my EX took me out once in a blue moon.

Overall, I think the guy should pay. However, as the relationship develops the dutch option may be increasingly feasible...

[the spy]

Great discussion. I agree that Guy Friends are definitely different than Dating Guys. This is an important distinction.

However, an even better digression in this conversation is the topic of gift giving. I often like to give gifts of thanks to people who help me out. Most often these people are women. Recently, a guy helped me out - tremendously and I would like to show my appreciation. Remember, this is a Guy Friend.

What are some good suggestions?

[Xena]

I am glad to hear that most men...er, all except for "SamtheSham" agree that men should pay. There is hope after all!!

Spy-- I don't know how big of a "thank you" you want to give this guy who helped you out...but assuming you want to spend between $10-$50 here are my ideas. Note: you must be VERY careful when giving a gift to another man, lest he or others become suspicious that there is something kinky going on.
Suggestions: Gift certificates are the best thank you in these situations. To a restaurant (if you are in Sacto think Paesanos, Ernestos, River City Brewing, Rubicon-- you know, manly & informal places), to a golf course for a round of golf or a bucket of balls at the range, to a sporting event, concert, record store, book store, etc. I hope this helps!

[samthesham]

Madame Xena--Is there no end to your expertise?!? I do agree with your recent comments re: gift giving. I must, however, draw the line with your earlier comment referencing your self-appointed apparent fluency with which you allege to know various Northern California locales...

I don't think my comments were unreasonable or out of line on the subject of who pays. You have managed to take my remarks out of context. Please take another look at precisely what I was saying. I was refering to an existing relationship. NOT a dating relationship. I have no problem whatsoever with the man paying in this situation.

I think what Xena really would like but is afraid to say here is that she would like to be spoiled rotten at all times, regardless of the status of the relationship--new or long-term.

[Xena]

SamtheSham----

You're funny! But you are wrong, I am perfectly happy to ADMIT I DO want to be spoiled rotten! What's so wrong with that? I bet most the female participants in the x-styles would agree that it is very nice to be spoiled.

[princess b]

I will admit that I enjoy being spoiled. HOWEVER, I do not EXPECT to be spoiled. I do not think it is my birthright to be spoiled just because I was born female.

I will also admit to being high maintenance - HOWEVER - I maintain myself, and expect no one else to do it for me.

As far as who pays - if you are just 'dating' - the man should pay, and the woman can offer once in a while - optionally of course.

If a couple is in an established relationship, particularly if both parties work, then both parties should share the expense of going out.

[samthesham]

PB, Once again, your comments are not only insightful, refreshing, but right on point. Too bad others don't share your articulately put forward remarks. Along the lines of your comments with which I agree 110%, NOBODY automatically has the right to be treated as "God's Gift".

[Xena]

PB-- You are selling yourself short! I don't know you but, if you treat your men well, you should EXPECT to be spoiled! I treat my man like a prince and in return am treated like a princess.

Come on now, you didn't pick the name "Princess" without a reason did you?

[princess b]

I don't need to sell myself, short or otherwise.

I didn't pick the name princess - it was given to me, and if you'll notice, there is a 'b' at the end.

As far as expecting to be spoiled - if you treat your man like a prince so that you can feel the right to be spoiled, then your treatment of him is not genuine.

Women who deserve to be spoiled generally are, those who expect it are generally (and deservedly) disappointed.

I'm speaking generally of course. I see women who don't deserve what they've got all the time.

A gilded cage is still a cage.

[princess b]

In response to samthesham - I disagree with you that NOBODY has the right to automatically be treated like God's gift.

Exceptions to this comment and those who I would love to have the opportunity to treat as God's gift:

Val Kilmer
David Duchovney
Vince Vaughn
the lead singer of the Goo Goo Dolls (my guiltiest crush ever)
that tall guy I keep seeing around the capitol.

Ladies (gents too), feel free to add to the list!

[This message has been edited by princess b (edited 06-22-99).]

[goDESS]

Xena,

If you have to discuss, expect, and drop hints to justify getting spoiled or to get spoiled, you are missing something.

It should just be. No discussion.

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goDESS

[Xena]

Goddess & Princess b--

Easy ladies. No need to sharpen your claws. You both miss the point----- when you treat someone well, you are in turn treated well. The old adage "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is true. Especially where male/female relationships are concerned.

There is nothing wrong with liking to be spoiled, expecting to be spoiled, and being spoiled. All 3 of which I have the privilege of claiming.

[This message has been edited by Xena (edited 06-22-99).]

[samthesham]

My, my, my; while away for that little committee meeting of mine that toiled away--what an exciting little committee has convened on this topic here. I haven't seen this much activity on this subject in quite some time. On this point, and I think my point has been the same point all along--Having the EXPECTATION of being spoiled is inappropriate.

What point, if any, are you trying to make Xena??? Perhaps a re-reading from start to finish of this entire topic is in order.

Lastly, PB addresses those who need addressing as appropriate. Accordingly, there are no such claws.

[princess b]

Why thank you samthesam. I did not expect such a defense from you, but I do appreciate it.

I will make the presumption that, had I expected it, I would have not received such a public display of defense.

I agree that if a point has been missed, Xena's done the missing.

Being spoiled is great, but expectation is wrong.

I grow weary of repeating this point. I refuse to engage in circular logic.

One last thing samthesham - I actually do have claws. Xena's right though, no need to sharpen them as they are never dull - always adorned in bright colors, but never dull.

[goDESS]

Xena,

Again, it should just be.

Why is it that you are so obsessed with it? Only been spoiled by one man for whom you had to work?

This conversation is very boring.

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goDESS

[princess b]

I agree - boring. Also way off the original topic and getting too long.

Xena - my compliments to you for starting one of the most active topic threads X-Styles as seen so far.