Mars Rover

[Dave]

Let me start by saying that I am facinated with space and the universe, I may not be all that educated in the area but it amazes me when I think about how vast our solar system is and what may be out there that we don't know about.

The space shuttle launches, the Hubble and the Mars Rover are very cool in my book...but

To me, it is also disturbing that the government will spend money on space exploration when there are sick and starving people all over the planet, including in the United States of America. Shouldn't the first priority be to make sure that anyone who needs food or medicine has it before Nasa gets a dime?

I am not against it but isn't a living person's life more important than finding possible life somewhere else other than earth?

[DMS]

Anarchist! You have french ancestors?:hehe:

[Dave]

I like french fries and french toast...and once in a while, a french vanilla coffee from Dunkin Donuts.......oh, and french kissing is pretty cool...other than that :sure:

[Barb101]

Damn Hippie :mad: ;)

There's more to this than just finding other life. It's all about the money, baby! Our Government stands to make a fortune in mining operations, settlements, transport, land claims, (despite a treaty) etc...on the moon. Fear of competitors is always the best motivator. Other countries are in different stages of planning moon trips now. I'm leary of the administration privatizing & letting companies take over, but the government stands to make a killing either way as I see it. Feeding our poor, tired & hungry can fucking wait! ;):what:

[STIBROKER]

well dave what if this world has met it's experation date and we need to move to live......how in the hell are we going to get there.......

[JDub]

Well I think it's a good start myself. If we don't get the ball rolling on this interplanetary colonization thing, we won't have anywhere to send the Dems when they loose again. :laugh:

[Eddy's Geist]

Damn Dave... you picked a topic that's been on my mind for a week or so since Bushie brought out the Space Exploration thing. Out of sheer "knee jerk" reaction I was/am against the new idea of a trip to Mars... though I do like the Moon base idea. The international space station is more efficient and feasable though there are advantages to having a lunar based station.

But is it the right time for this kind of exploration? Umm... No...Yes... might as well get the ball rolling and just carry through with it.

I'd say finding extraterrestrial life might be of more importance if the life in question can teach us methods that can help improve the lives of everyone on Earth.

By the way, the Space Program has given quite a few benefits back to us through the discovery of new materials. One that comes to mind is "air gel". It's the foam that was developed to catch particles from the tail of a comet. If one were to insulate a house with an inch of air gel then they could warm the interior of the entire house through the thermal energy that is given off by a single candle. (of course, it's too expensive at this time to insulate a house with AirGel but it it won't be for too long).

[STIBROKER]

Originally posted by JDub
Well I think it's a good start myself. If we don't get the ball rolling on this interplanetary colonization thing,


yo jdub....will I be able to get the Finwick moved too.......

[JDub]

Dunno...

But I'm willing to be you'll be the first insurance guy in space. ;)

[RicardoHead]

Beyond just developing materials, pursuing "impossible" goals in space has a whole lot of other benefits for all of us including the sick and the starving - mostly in pushing technological boundaries.

By pushing the boundaries and going to the moon, we develop new methods and technologies sooner than otherwise and use these for human benefit. Example: weather satellites which help use observe phenomenon and better predict conditions, which not only save lives in hurricanes and the like but also better allow us to inform and advise farmers on growing their crops to maximize output, feeding people and helping to keep prices lower.

Add to that how much things we use everyday (like computers) were in part furthered by developments used in space/military developments, and think of the employment these consumer products have created, thus feeding people and also generating tax revenues to help the sick and starving.

Also, the technological advances have residual benefits for biotechnological research, aircraft safety, automotive safety, tracking terrorists, etc. It is highly simplistic to just say "WTF do we have to go to Mars for?" The goal is fantastic, but it's not the goal that brings the benefits - it's all the fascinating shit we'll be developing along the way, and the impact that will have on us all.


This kinda reminds me of the other day when on a oldies station I heard that song "In The Year 2525" from the sixties. All the things in the song sounded a bit far-fetched back then, I assume, but today (only 40 years later) over half of them are reality. Ya gotta push the boundaries to do that; otherwise we'll just be stuck in a moment in time like most of the non-western world.

[Dave]

There are easier and more direct ways to feed starving people than by developing materials from outer spaces. I understand that we just don't take joy rides on the space shuttle, that these missions serve a purpose. My issuse is that the government has no problem spending billions of dollars on the space program but hungry people on the streets have to rely on volunteer groups and charities who run soup kitchens to get a meal.....I don't have the answers but I have to imagine that it would costs a fraction of what Nasa spends to feed and medicate people who really need the assistance.

[RicardoHead]

True, Dave, if feeding the starving is the only goal. Not to say it isn't a pressing goal, but when doling out grain from the public trough, a whole lotta goals have to be considered.

If you ask me, that we don't feed the starving with what we fork out for public spending is a joke. If you wish to advocate reallocating those funds to more pressing purposes, I got no issue with that. But as for the part of public funds that I consider a true investment in the future, creating jobs and technologies that will help American citizens and the world (such as a Mars trip) then I personally say that's bullshit. People sieze on a relative minor little thing in the budgetary scheme of things to "highlight stupidity" when the real stupidity is in how we blow the more than adequate funds already allocated to immediate needs.

That's my 2 cents, which is more than the direct benefit I'll get from paying my fair share of the welfare burden this year.

[Dave]

It's not just satrving people, I used that as an example, that a human life is a little more important than finding Martians...go to the hospital without insurance and try to get the help you need, the best help you can get....forget it...how can you justify spending so much on space exploration when there are so many unsolved problems. It's like taking your paycheck to the casino instead of buying groceries and paying the rent.

I am no bleading heart, believe me...I am the first to make a comment to a a panheandler to go to McDonalds for a job becase they are always looking for employees...but there are truly people who are unable to work and can't support themselves and get the proper medication of nutrition they need.

[RicardoHead]

Originally posted by Dave
It's like taking your paycheck to the casino instead of buying groceries and paying the rent.

Compared to the size of the federal budget, the amount we spend on NASA is like taking $1 outta your paycheck and buying one lotto ticket. You ain't gonna get a lot of groceries and rent for the money, and at least with space technology we are virtually guaranteed to get waaaay more than the investment back over time.

You wanna eat and pay the rent? Go after the money blown on "smokes and beer." I guarantee you it'll go a lot further than the strawman from Mars.

[Dave]

You aren't getting the point I was trying to make with the groceries..........what I meant was, shouldn't the government make sure everyone receives proper nursihment and medical attention before it would even think of spending money on space exploration...............maybe I am an idiot, well, I probably am...but I think a humn life is more precious than knowing if there is or was water on Mars.

[STIBROKER]

Originally posted by Dave
You aren't getting the point I was trying to make with the groceries..........what I meant was, shouldn't the government make sure everyone receives proper nursihment .....


did you not get your free cheese.........

[Dave]

I once saw a comedian live, he was joking about government cheese and butter, he said he wrote to the president and said "eating all that cheese was making him constipated"...he said the president sent him back a letter telling him "thats why there is butter too"

Then he said he sent back another letter asking "where's the muthaf%&*ing bread"

[KrzDefKat]

I agree with what Dave is saying. Of course, this doesn't just apply to space exploration. I question a lot of what my country is doing. Forgiving debts is irresponsible.
We have great health care. Depending on the angle you are looking at. My mother spent the last 5 or 6 years of her life in a hospital with emphysema, and the cost was about $700 a month, about the amount of her pension. I didn't think this was fair.
We are charged $40 to take an ambulance.
This is peanuts, really, compared to what I experienced in the US. I was raped in Detroit in 1980, went to the hospital, and wound up being billed $250 US. I could not believe this. :scary: :mad: :nolike: Needless to say, I refused to pay. Let them come and catch me. $250 was more than my weekly wage.
What if I was homeless, or had 6 kids to feed? How do you reckon someone should be charged with a bill after being raped?
I sent the $250 US to a women's relief centre, once I had it.
I'm not whining, but I've gone hungry many times. My cats will have food and clean litter before I will eat. I refuse to go to welfare. I'll be able to go back to work in a few weeks. I find it funny that you can pay into a system for years, and then not have anything to fall back on, aside from welfare.
We have many homeless here. Some are genuine, a lot are scammers. :what: That could be me, at any given time. We have many programs in place to help these people. But apparently the money is better spent forgiving Iraq's debt. :mad:
Sorry for rambling, I hope some of this made sense. :what:

[RicardoHead]

Originally posted by Dave
You aren't getting the point I was trying to make with the groceries..........what I meant was, shouldn't the government make sure everyone receives proper nursihment and medical attention before it would even think of spending money on space exploration...............maybe I am an idiot, well, I probably am...but I think a humn life is more precious than knowing if there is or was water on Mars.
You're not an idiot - okay well may...nevermind - but you have different priorities than me. You think that making "sure everyone receives proper nourishment and medical attention" is the primary function of government. That's okay and noble, but I see that as only part of its primary function, with some of the other parts being providing for our defense and keeping our economy ahead of the rest of the world productively and technologically so we can maintain our edge in that regard.

Bluntly put, I say if you want a government that caters to every social need you can imagine, Germany and Scandinavia are over there waiting for you - I know, I lived there. The US gov thankfully has a broader sets of priorities which on the whole have done wonders to achieve both your goals and mine over time.

[Dave]

It must be my good ole Italian mother's influence, she fed every damn kid on the block and put a lot of band aids on a lot of skinned knees of kids I was friends with whose parents didn't give a rats ass about them.

[WARTHOG]

The finding and disseminating of nutritious food is NOT a governmental responsibility. Get off the dead butt and go get a job and buy your own food.

The amount of actual budget that gets put into the space program is miniscule compared to what gets wasted on studying cow farts, let alone defense.

How about Fuck Ethiopia, let them starve. Pull our troops home, feed Detroit and La's starving masses. Tax the fuck out of all foreign owned businesses in the US and tax the hell out of US businesses that get their raw materials or labor Overseas.

That alone should fund a trip to the far side of the known galaxy.

Be that as it may, I think the Space program is a great investment and we should definitely go to Mars and take the politicians along as fuel.

[Dave]

Maybe I'd like to see my tax dollars feed someone in the US instead of an Ethiopian....why is that our goverment's responsibility? Because it is humane? If tha'ts the case then isn't the humane thing to do to give medical attention to someone who can't afford it.

And as far as getting of your butt and get a job, I subscribe to that theory too....but some people can't work due to disabilities or old age or whatever.