Navy is Revamping Boot Camp

[Eagle3]

Uh, yea...... http://bushwhacked.net/forum/images/smilies/tweetz.gif

A Friendlier Boot Camp? (http://www.military.com/NewsContent?file=FL_navy_111203&ESRC=navy.nl)

Associated Press
November 12, 2003

CHICAGO - Generations of recruits at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center have marched from barracks to classroom, classroom to barracks, barracks to mess hall - more than a mile and a half a day for their nine weeks of basic training.

"Two years ago, we did more marching than even the Marine Corps or the Army," said Rear Adm. Ann Rondeau, commander of the center in North Chicago.

But the nation's only boot camp for Navy enlistees is undergoing a major change - and less marching for the roughly 45,000 recruits who pass through every year is only a part of it.

Instead of wasting training time by making recruits adapt to the aging base, the base is adapting to them. The result, Rondeau and others say, should be better-trained, healthier sailors who are prepared to serve from the day they graduate.

Two years ago, recruits were allotted six and a half hours of sleep. Today, they get eight hours, a reflection that most people need that much shuteye to be healthy and to learn effectively.

Recruits no longer spend a week of their training on kitchen duty. Meals are handled by a private company, leaving more time for training in fighting, survival and counterterrorism techniques.

The two giant dining halls are disappearing, to be replaced by galleys in the barracks.

Fifteen new barracks are being built containing classroom and training areas; each will be named after a famous ship from Navy history in an attempt to imbue Navy lore in sailors from the start.

They will replace barracks with antiquated ventilation systems in which, Rondeau said, when one recruit gets sick, 70 or 80 more quickly follow.

Also slated for the wrecking ball are the base's drill halls, which were put up more than 60 years ago as temporary structures. They will be replaced by three new training halls with air conditioning, offices and classrooms and modern amenities.

The cost of all the new construction is projected to be $798 million over nine years, said Cmdr. Tony Edmonds.

Navy officials are quick to say the new approach is intended to be more focused, not any less rigorous than the old way of doing things.

"I think the recruits are going to get a training that's more tailored to the needs of the Navy," Lt. Dan Cook said.

"Always being tired all the time and always being sick and coughing really affects your ability to effectively learn," Rondeau said. "We want people to be able to focus on making critical decisions."

[gopsdragon]

Originally posted by eagle3
Navy officials are quick to say the new approach is intended to be more focused, not any less rigorous than the old way of doing things....I think the recruits are going to get a training that's more tailored to the needs of the Navy," Lt. Dan Cook said....Always being tired all the time and always being sick and coughing really affects your ability to effectively learn," Rondeau said. "We want people to be able to focus on making critical decisions."

BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, AND MORE BULLSHIT

They got rid of leggings and rifles the year after I went through something about no longer serves a purpose. It's great to see that now the economic mindset has polluted our military, the Huns can't be far outside of Rome now.

Can any historian go back and re educate these weeneys? The point isn't about whether or not one can peel a potato, the point is learning discipline and how to take orders. Break the man down to the point that no matter what a commanding officer knows in the middle of a battle that his orders will be carried out and his strategy implemented to give his force the best chance of winning. It's not all about the individual. That's all we need -

OOD-FC fire the missle!

FC- Well sir, I not really sure that I believe it's appropriate to fire the missile in this instance.

Great. Terrific. The new Army of one and the Navy of it's too tough to drill with rifles and peel potatos. F***ing wonderful way to run a military operation.

[Eagle3]

Exactly and that's why the Marines will not change their boot camp.... hopefully.

Dropping work week is a huge fucking mistake. If you can't handle that what good are you during an ORE, or the real thing. You make the key point in all of this though, the ability to unquestionably follow a direct order. Before you were relatively sure, now I'm not sure of anything.

[Freak]

f'ing pussies.

Seems like they are following Clinton's initiative to make a kinder, gentler navy.:sure:

[wrecker05]

WTF? Walking is bad(that is all marching is)? this has to be a william the Zipper innitiative. :nolike:

BCT is all about discipline.You have to strip away the civilian to make a soldier. WTF?

[joeseamonkey]

Exactly and that's why the Marines will not change their boot camp.... hopefully.

The Marines now have what is called a stress card...and when they feel stressed out they hold it up and the D.I. has to lay off them.
Can't help but wonder how that stress card would work in war time.

[Pistol Pete]

I know about the "stress cards" for the Army that were implimented during Billary's black mark on our history, but haven't heard of The Marines being so low as to use them. Maybe Rummy has deleted those "whine chits".
I know I don't want The Marines coming to kick my ass, which is a job they've done extremely well for 228 years. (Not my ass in particular. Just asses in general.) ;)
Semper Fi

[Eagle3]

Originally posted by joeseamonkey
... Can't help but wonder how that stress card would work in war time.

"S'cuz me.....s'cuz me... would you mind laying off the RPG's in this direction? I have something in my eye... *ouch!*"

This whole stress card shit blows my mind. Who thinks this shit up?! I wonder if this isn't the brainchild of some bored politicos that can't pass anything substantial through congress except a lot of fart gas.

*throws up hands in disgust*

[shotglass]

Originally posted by joeseamonkey
The Marines now have what is called a stress card...and when they feel stressed out they hold it up and the D.I. has to lay off them.
Can't help but wonder how that stress card would work in war time.

WTF is this shit? I think I'll be dropping by the local recruiters office to ask him about this shit....

Boot camp is about pushing your limits, and setting new one in all phases of your self: physical and emotional and mental. You can't do that if your carrying around a pussy-card. "Sorry, DI Jones, but you can't yell at me cause my ass hurts...."

Sounds like a bunch of crap.

If I had flashed something like this at my DI's, I would have paid dearly for it.

[Eagle3]

I would never attempt to claim we had it as bad as the Marines or the Army in boot, but there was a stigma in the Navy against taking an easy way out. Case in point would be a bed rest chit or as we called them, "pussy papers". If you came back from sick call with a bed rest chit it was better to just pitch it in the shit can and get back to work. I hardly knew anyone that took advantage of pussy papers, so I wonder how often this stress card really gets played. Be honest guys, if we were all in boot right now and you had that option would you ever even consider getting it out and what would be your attitude towards anyone that did? I for one would never use it no matter what and anyone that did should immediately be taken to the main gate. To me that stress card is the equivilant of surrendering.

[wrecker05]

Originally posted by Pistol Pete
I know about the "stress cards" for the Army that were implimented during Billary's black mark on our history, but haven't heard of The Marines being so low as to use them. Maybe Rummy has deleted those "whine chits".



I thought stress cards were a joke.

I do not ever recall a stress card in the Army mentioned.I make jokes about them to new Privates. I repeat stress cards are not used by the army in basic training.

It may be urban legend. I found this link. I haven't been able to find any links/evidence to substantiate the "stress card" besides the usual BS crap :I was sitting next to a Staff sgt. on a plane and he said...., my friend who is a combat engineer in the army with combat experience in Somalia(fill in country where a minor firefight has occurred) .....the usual BS crap with no supporting evidence.

So relax, it is not happening, nor do I believe it has.

http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm

[Eagle3]

I talked to my nephew on Christmas eve about this. He just finished boot at Fort Benning. He said someone in his plattoon asked his DI about stress cards and about got his head ripped off and served to him rectally. :hehe:

[wrecker05]

Originally posted by eagle3
I talked to my nephew on Christmas eve about this. He just finished boot at Fort Benning. He said someone in his plattoon asked his DI about stress cards and about got his head ripped off and served to him rectally. :hehe:

Sounds like your nephew is from good stock, choosing the Army and all:cool: What is his MOS? Well since I am on a Navy forum, what is his rate(I hope that is the right term eagle) ?;)

[Eagle3]

Originally posted by wrecker05
Sounds like your nephew is from good stock, choosing the Army and all:cool: What is his MOS? Well since I am on a Navy forum, what is his rate(I hope that is the right term eagle) ?;)

:laugh: Princess Pei Pei tries to explain these MOS's to me. They still don't make sense to this squid. My nephew is coming over today to visit before heading back to Fort "Useless". I'll ask him what his MOS is. Basically he's going to school to wrench on Apaches and hopefully go warrant and flight school in a couple years. He's got a lot of woo ah in him though. It's refreshing to see after seeing another nephew who's in the Air Force. :what: :rolleyes: :sure:

[wrecker05]

Sounds like he is a 15R perhaps?I hold two MOS'.11B and 31B.:cool:

[wrecker05]

Originally posted by eagle3
[B It's refreshing to see after seeing another nephew who's in the Air Force. :what: :rolleyes: :sure: [/B]

Check out the Air force PT standards. :nolike:

[Eagle3]

15Yankee. Apache Avionics and Armament. He's ate up too. :laugh: http://bushwhacked.net/forum/images/smilies/patriotflag.gif

[Eagle3]

Originally posted by wrecker05
Check out the Air force PT standards. :nolike:

They .... *gulp* have standards? :confused:

[wrecker05]

Originally posted by eagle3
15Yankee. Apache Avionics and Armament. He's ate up too. :laugh:

I'll fix him up. :evil: :smokin:

[wrecker05]

Originally posted by eagle3
They .... *gulp* have standards? :confused:

Now they are tested on the 1.5 mile run, pushups in 1 min and crunches (situps?) in one min and they receive extra points for having their abdomens measured. Of course, those on some sort of medical BS excuse can keep the current ride your bike or walk 3 miles instead of the run.
Oh, and reservists have to meet the new standards. (Since when haven't reservists not been required to meet the same standards as their active duty counterparts :nolike: )

I have searched for their PT standards online and have not been able to find them, nor have I been able to find their "new" PT standards. WTF? Do they exist?

Whoever heard of a 1.5 mile run, or situps in one minute, especially pushups in one minute, or having your belly measured for extra points?:nolike:

[Rander]

I went to Navy boot camp in San Diego in November 1968 and thought it was a breeze. so what has changed? Looks to me that the NAV has decided that its to cold in Northern Chi- town to let the boots go for a morning march so now once you walk into the barracks you don't go outside any more. You now eat, sleep and do your classes in the same building. where is the tough rifle drills we once had to do when I was in Boot camp? Replaced with a tv monitor and a JOY stick I'LL bet!!! AH the day and age of computers has finally hit boot camp, Discusting!! :cry:

My son joined the ARMY in July of 2000 and he said Army boot camp was a breese also. He said 6 weeks in to his training at Fort Jackson South Carolina, he was asked to participate in a special event, several of his buddies volinterred. They were loaded on to a bus and taken to a Carolina Panthers Home Football Game. The tickets were free. Now thats Boot camp!

[wrecker05]

BCT is always a breeze, always has been. I guess it depends on your attitude. Do your job is what it boils down to.

:)

[Billntwrk]

After reading all the replys, I found myself agreeing. The I was hit with a bolt of *Old Age attacks!* It was as an Image I recalled. A sign in AIMD Berthing that was paineted on a set of Lockers. No Eating, No Drinking and ABSOLUTLY NO SMOKING! (Think I will go back and Photo document the sigh for Buzz's album collection.) ANyway, I recall that Our old guard, when I was on A/D used to pipe off about how we *Young Pups had it Easy, these days..." I remeber thinking what the hell is this old Lifer babbling about? Easy? A pier watch in Sub Zero weather. 4 hours of sleep between Final respot and Call to Flight Quarters. Horse cock sandwich's an Bug juice day in and day out (Because us Roof Rats did not have time to go eat on the mess decks.) You get the idea.

Now these kids have Sat Phones, ATMS personal DVD players (Any one remember when SOny Walkmans at 90 dollars or so, first came out? Remember, this is 1981 era 90.00) I remember when being the flight deck photographer meant an extra 125 bucks a month. Made me better paid than a very junior E-4. I digress. These KIds have Plates and Glasses. I ate off a steal tray.

Here is a real kick in the pants. Do you know that Federal/State Prisoneres in incarceration are alloted more personal space than a sailor at sea?

Work week eliminated? What a crock! What happens when these poor swabs get to their first fleet assignment? Mess Cranking! 90 days. (And ya better make rate or it's back for a command performance!).

Will P.P.P.'s have to worry about the race card being palyed when assigning a non rate to scrub the shitters? This is not a college or country club. It is an organization that means you can die in the cource of the job! You are expected to offer your life to a greater good! Wait. Let me show my stress card! Sorry Sir, Dont wanna goto combat. Too stressful! Todays active duty commander was but a high school kid when I was active duty. The very first batch of the *Me* Generation. Pansys, Pussies and folsjk who woudl denegrate our great Navy in the name of personal rights!

Right, Lets all gather round, join hands and sing a rousing rendition of Cume By Yah, My Lord!
And Buzz! Sure Hope Kelsea does not se this board. Pussy Papers? LOL. I never knew ya had it in ya. I knew you were from the crazy world of Flight Decks But Damn! Chuckle

[Rander]

:D

Bill, Time waits for NO ONE!!! we are in the days of computers! every thing is digital now, ever, dare I say it, YES, even in Boot Camp. Bill, Check the calander we are the old guard!! WE can brag how good we had it. I must admit I had lots of fun while I was on A/D. I DID the Navy MY WAY. The recruiting poster always said "Sailors have more fun". I believe I had my share, Did You?

You remember those metal meal trays? doesn't matter if you got hot food right off the grill or weather it mellowed on the steam table, 2 seconds after the food hit your tray it was always cold, some say nearly freezing. One commodity the ships always have a good supply of is bug juice, ranks second only to COFFEE.

BILL you have to keep prisoners seperated or the next thing you know is you have a riot on your hands, however, many of those prisoners are locked in their cells 23 hours a day. whereas on the ship you can roll outta the rack and go take a walk if you want to or if your hungary, go have a midnight snak at midrats.

Ahhhh life on the boat, the smells, the whole experience of an Aircraft Carrier. Nowhere else can you experience that, Only the Navy. Todays Navy has added women to the mix, Maybe we old timers could not handle todays Navy, to many things have changed, I worked aircraft maintenance at squadron and intermediate level while I was in, and now I work depot level in Building 94 at NAS NI and not a lot has changed. Still seems like you have to wait until forever for parts to arrive and then there are all the politics involved.

But we survived Didn't we, thats what memories are. you heard your share of sea stories while you were a gate greeter. You Had fun didn't you?

The Navy, Let the Adventure begin.


:thumbsup:

If YOUR not having fun; YOU'RE not doing it right

[Billntwrk]

Hi!

FOr all you Non Navy folk. MOS is Navy Speak for *Method of stupifity*!

LOL

Sorry to my Marine/Army brethren. Ya had to know it was coming!

At least I did not lump you with the Air Force! (A really Great Communtity Service Organization)

Billntwrk@yahoo.com sends

[nipon ginko]

I would never attempt to claim we had it as bad as the Marines or the Army in boot, but there was a stigma in the Navy against taking an easy way out. Case in point would be a bed rest chit or as we called them, "pussy papers". If you came back from sick call with a bed rest chit it was better to just pitch it in the shit can and get back to work. I hardly knew anyone that took advantage of pussy papers, so I wonder how often this stress card really gets played. Be honest guys, if we were all in boot right now and you had that option would you ever even consider getting it out and what would be your attitude towards anyone that did? I for one would never use it no matter what and anyone that did should immediately be taken to the main gate. To me that stress card is the equivilant of surrendering.


" I never heard of a Stress Card or Pussy Papers till now When I was going thru Boot -In San Diego You worked unless you were in the Hospital in my galley week I lucked out and ended up working for the MAA one of my duties was making a list of the people going to sick call I came down with the same thing everyone else had extremely sore throat and fever and just barely able to talk to make the list I just grabbed the guy's hat and copied his name on the list nobody got out of work for something as simple as a sore throat . I thought our CO was tough until I got a look at the guy running the company behind us he used to close the bars up in San Diego the come in and roust his guys out ,several times he took them over to the Marine base and ran them in the sand traps for an hour or so just for fun (I still remember his name it was Finney he was a first class I don't remember what his rate was anymore but for years I remembered it just in case I got lucky and ran into the S.O.B. out in the fleet never did though .) also while I was working in the galley I saw him come up and heard him claim someone was talking in ranks ,so he proceeded to have them run in place until half a dozen guys were laying on the ground holding their sides ,he then says ok fall out for chow ,not to many of them looked like they intended to eat after that. towards the end of training he comes into our barricks drunk as usual and proceeds to walk the length of our sleeping quarters berating us for having it so easy with our CO."

[Trigger]

I graduated boot camp in Feb 1962. Never heard of pussy papers. About a dozen of us had our wisdom teeth pulled one afternoon and were able to go back to the barracks afterward and sleep it off until the next AM. Don't think anyone called us pussies. They were probably grateful that their teeth weren't pulled.
Trigger

[Rander]

" I never heard of a Stress Card or Pussy Papers till now When I was going thru Boot -In San Diego You worked unless you were in the Hospital in my galley week I lucked out and ended up working for the MAA one of my duties was making a list of the people going to sick call I came down with the same thing everyone else had extremely sore throat and fever and just barely able to talk to make the list I just grabbed the guy's hat and copied his name on the list nobody got out of work for something as simple as a sore throat . I thought our CO was tough until I got a look at the guy running the company behind us he used to close the bars up in San Diego the come in and roust his guys out ,several times he took them over to the Marine base and ran them in the sand traps for an hour or so just for fun (I still remember his name it was Finney he was a first class I don't remember what his rate was anymore but for years I remembered it just in case I got lucky and ran into the S.O.B. out in the fleet never did though .) also while I was working in the galley I saw him some up and heard him claim someone was talking in ranks ,so he proceeded to have them run in place until half a dozen guys were laying on the ground holding their sides ,he then says ok fall out for chow ,not to many of them looked like they intended to eat after that. towards the end of training he comes into our barricks drunk as usual and proceeds to walk the length of our sleeping quarters berating us for having it so easy with our CO."

My bootcamp company commander in November 1968 at RTC San Diego was BTC John M. James. he was a regular BOOZER mostly always on friday and saturday nights he knew not to go home drunk as his wife would not let him in the house. SO he would stagger in the barracks and sleep it off in his office bunk. He really didn't bother anyone except the RCPO, to help him unlock the door to his office, and not to disturb him untill 0900 Saturday or Sunday morning. I was in boot camp over Christmas and BTC James and his wife came in on Christmas Day and gave each of us a little present of 6 Christmas cookies. It was I believe the only night before a holiday he didn't go to the club and get drunk. SHe also made come fruit punch that had been spiked with some rum as you could only have 2 cups of it. After all you didn't want to fall down while you were waiting in line for Christmas dinner in the galley. Our company flag only had one award on it as our company 801 only won the swimming competion in or battalion. When the Chief was sober he was a good leader and teacher and forgave alot of our little misques. Other Company Commanders would go through our lockers during battalion inspections and through 3 battalion inspections no was caught with anything that was not supposed to be there. and that got the battalion commander to leave us alone.

[nipon ginko]

I graduated boot camp in Feb 1962. Never heard of pussy papers. About a dozen of us had our wisdom teeth pulled one afternoon and were able to go back to the barracks afterward and sleep it off until the next AM. Don't think anyone called us pussies. They were probably grateful that their teeth weren't pulled.
Trigger

"Trigger what company were you in ,we got out just before Christmas 1961 they cut us a week short so they wouldn't hold us thru the holidays mostly they cut the physical Ed type of stuff except the Whale Boat race which we won ,our leader was a little short CPO so he picked out little short guy's for the team except for the cox. After one trip out with these lite weights jim (the COX) says were never going to win with these wimps so he repicks the crew and I was the smallest guy on the team at 5' 11" and 175 lbs most of these guy's were going 200 -210 lbs we went out and during practice we squared off agenst some of the other teams and found out if we could stay cordinated we could beat any of the teams ,our problem was we would keep getting the oars locked up when we tried to go faster ,we eventially decided that instead of rowing faster we would just pull deeper that worked well for us . The day of the race when the pistol went off Jim forgot our plan and picked up the cadence and we got the oars locked to gether he called -OARS-and we all stopped and watched the other boats leave us behind then he started over correctly and we started really pulling deep and about 2/3 of the way down the canal we blew by the lead boat .later on the guy's in CO.-511 which was the lead boat says damn we thought you guy's had an outbd motor on that thing the way you went by.Their leader was the Drunk I was talking about earlier and the guys said he had promisted them a real bad night if they didn't win this thing-anyway the chief that was running the race told us that we had just tied the second place time for running the canal:smokin: I was thinking if we hadn't got screwed up to start, if we could have possibly set a new time -but anyway 510 got the flag to tie on our guide on! One of our guys I believe his name was Perry had Warts all over his hands that the Doc's had frozen to try and get rid of them ,during the race he was hitting the guy on the next oar in the back and these things broke open we were wearing whites and this poor guy that was in front of him had the whole back of his jumper soaked in blood."