What is evil?

[Deamon]

What do you consider evil? To me, there is no such thing as evil.. Hitler wasn't evil.. his plan just went wrong.. he wanted to remove the jews from where his people would live so he put them in concetration camps to relocate them.. when it was found there was nowhere to relocate them, he killed them all.. Bin Laden isn't evil, he thinks he's doing the world a favor and gods will.. Of course these are just my opinions.. what do you consider evil and why?

[Laurie]

I consider it evil having to read you ridiculous post................

[Laurie]

I consider it evil having to read your ridiculous post................

[Laurie]

That's it.......I'm going to bed.

[Macbeth]

Tom Collins' are evil. High school guidance counselors are pretty bad too!

[Kimmy]

what?!!

[Kimmy]

[QUOTE] Hitler wasn't evil.. his plan just went wrong..

???
I'm speechless

[WARTHOG]

Kimmy speechless???????????? I SHALL ALERT THE MEDIA!

LOL

------------------
The 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

[Eddy's Geist]

hey, what the US did to the american indians in the 19th century isn't all that different from what Hitler did. Does the world look at us in horror? Nope, that's because we "won". How about what the belgiums did in the Congo? They saw to the killing of more people than the nazis did.. where's the outrage and anguish there? I'll tell you what evil is... evil is what your peers says it is.

Trust me.. people in the middle east think Americans are evil. Are they right? Are we?

[Deamon]

I didn't mean to say like my opinions were fact, I mean to say that to me, there is no such thing as evil, to me, sharon is evil, persecuting the palestinians, you find just as many reasons for him not to be evil. For you, Bin Laden is evil, to me I find many reasons for him not to be, if you look in the right places you can find the good side for everybody.. justify their cause, no matter how brutal and wrong it was. A evil era was the reign of terror, the senseless executions of up to a million people, simply because they were considered to be enemies of the revolution. But what if they were? Stalin is called evil by many, but he wasn't going round killing his people just for fun was he? To me sadists are the only things that could be considered evil, but something that wrong.. they have to be mentally ill, in which case it is not their fault, making them not evil.

[JBMoney]

http://bushwhacked.net/photo/badman.jpg

[Auff]

Sin is doing anything to break the "ten" commandments. Cowardice is going after innocent, unprepared victims. Evil is a combination of sin and cowardice.

[Laurie]

Excellent analogy, Auff. I like that way of thinking!! It outta be added to some book or something.

[Eddy's Geist]

But the ten commandaments only apply to Christians.

God Bless the rest of the World

[Deamon]

Like America attacking afgahnistan! I never considered us THAT evil until now, thanks auff! http://bushwhacked.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Auff]

Eddy: The "ten" commandments are contained in Exodus 20. Exodus is the 2nd book of the Bible. The first 5 books are considered the Jewish "Law". Islam considers Jesus the greatest prophet (presumably after Mohammed), and the Judeo-Christian God as their Allah, so Exodus 20 also applies to Islam. The commandments, therefore, do not "only apply to Christians".

Deamon: The commandments do not prohibit anyone from defending himself or herself. Contrarily, the ancient Jews were fierce warriors (just like the modern ones). Furthermore, the US did not attack Afghanistan, we attacked terrorists who are in that country. We will also attack terrorists who are in Pakistan, Iraq, or any other country, including our own. The terrorists may perhaps be unprepared for US Special Forces (as most anyone would be), but they are not innocent.

[Macbeth]

Auff: Wait a minute, if I covet my neighbor's ass and he's not prepared for it . . . I'm evil. Is there levels of evil, or is that just as evil as say for instance Osama.

Seems a little silly, doesn't it?

Thank god my God is benevolent.

[Eddy's Geist]

Sorry Auff, Islam does noit consider Jesus the greatest prophet... if they did they'd follow the words of jesus and not Mohommad(sp?).

Try learning about other religions beofre spouting off what's superior and what isn't. I'd recommend trying to find out this information on your own and not asking someone else. It's a fairly easy process and you'll find it to be personally more rewarding.

You know Auff, reading through your past posts i have to give you some advice. take it or leave it.

If you feel the desire to spread the gospel of jesus then do so, but tread lightly or you risk turning more people away from god than you'll draw.

Of course, I could be Satan hiding under the guise of a 'failed" catholic and I'm just out to trick you. http://bushwhacked.net/ubb/wink.gif

[Auff]

Eddy: read my words again, bud. Islam considers Jesus the greatest prophet AFTER Mohammed. That means Mo is #1 for them, J #2.
Also, Exodus 20 aint "the gospel of Jesus"; it was written about 1500 BC (that's Before Christ).

[Auff]

McBetty: if you have your dick up your unprepared, innocent neighbor's ass then by my definition you are evil.

[shotglass]

I'm glad I don't live near Macbeth.

[JBMoney]

Just a heads up - Regardless of differences in opinion, let's make sure we show some respect for fellow posters. Stick to the issues. Out.

[Macbeth]

Auff:
#1 - I don't have a dick

#2 - Let me translate my question for as you seem to be having some problems. If I take/desire to take my neighbor's donkey (this refers to property) and he's not prepared for it am I evil?

#3 - You still didn't answer my question.

[Eddy's Geist]

Doh! Auff, sorry..my bad. I have to remember "after comes later than before' http://bushwhacked.net/ubb/wink.gif

I'm not talking about Exodus or when it was written. I'm talkin' bout you're other posts. (Just giving you a ribbing anyhow... )

[Eddy's Geist]

I see a school bus comin your way!

[Auff]

JB: All in fun malice towards no one.

Mac, perhaps you can get an "addadicktome" (read my above comment to JB). Seriously: no, but it makes you an everyday sinner, not quite the lowlife evil dickfour that bin Laden is.

Eddy: Schoolbus? (sorry, not a Homer fan).

[Deamon]

Congratulations! You all have succesfully confused Deamon

[Auff]

an ad-a-dick-to-me is a sex change operation (women to man). A dick-four is, well... do I need to tell you what a dick is for? Hink: its not just for aiming urine.

[Deamon]

People get off topic too easily

[jhans]

OK Deamon, lets get back on the topic then. You made a general statement to begin this thread. You need to give a little more detail on your basis for making your original statement. You have stated that you do not believe there is such a thing as evil. Either you are trying to make the point that there are no ultimate truths or perhaps this is just a problem of semantics. If you believe the former, I’d question calling yourself a Catholic. If it is the latter, I’d say your statement just reflects your belief pertaining to value judgments. The word “evil” is just another degree of the underlying word “bad”. For you “evil” might imply such a high level of malevolence that you do not believe that anyone could be that “bad”.

[Sappho]

Hitler wasn't evil. Neither is Osama bin Laden. They're human. When Hitler is made out to be an evil monster, we ignore the evil within all humans (and perhaps the good as well) and make it possible for evil to go unnoticed. To BE something is different than to embody it. It's easier to make Hitler and Osama out to be evil beings than to acknowledge that we possess the same capabilities. That would mean acknowledging responsibility as well, for if Hitler is human, than he's my brother, and I am his keeper.

In her book on the Eichmann trials in Jerusalem following WWII, Hannah Arendt argues that evil is banal in nature, not monstrous. I have to agree.

For her, evil was the quiet little sniffly guy who signed away the deaths of millions of people from the safety of his desk. When asked why, his answer was that he was simply following orders. Not to imply that doing what you're told is evil, but doing it without question is. For that matter, anything without question is.

Therefore, ignorance and poverty (what led to Hitler, and to an extent, Osama) can also be viewed as evil. The only thing good in a broken world appears to be knowledge. Know thyself, know thy neighbors, know thy government. Knowledge may be power, but it comes at the price of sorrow. Just ask Eve.

[jhans]

Pull yourself together Sappho. Is there evil or not? Hitler wasn’t Evil b/c he knew what he was doing? The desk clerk is evil b/c he didn’t ask if what he was doing was right or wrong? The question was “is there evil? I guess your hypothetical evil rubber stamping desk clerk is your recognition that evil exists. If an omission can make the desk clerk evil, why can’t Hitler’s actions make him evil?

[Sappho]

The original post, "What is evil?" already assumes that evil does exist.

Did you even read my post?

I say evil can't be personified. Hitler himself is not evil, his actions are. The "hypothetical" desk clerk was Eichmann, Hitler's right hand man. He embodies evil, like his boss, not because he knew about wrongdoing, but because he chose not speak up against it. He was banal. Banality is evil, but Eichmann isn't.

[jhans]

Sappho, Deamon authored the original post and his statement specifically states “To me, there is no such thing as evil”. Therefore, the original post does not “assume” that evil does exist. While Deamon states his own answer about its non-existence, he also wants our opinions on the subject. My statement to you was a round about way of saying that it appeared you made no judgment as to Hitler’s actions. I understood that you did not want to personify evil. However, it appeared that you were trying to say that Eichmann was more accountable than was Hitler. Your statement said that “evil is banal in nature, not monstrous. I have to agree.” This made it appear as if you were saying that it is our common everyday nonchalance that is the root of evil rather than one of its major causes. Since this excludes a character such as Hitler who to me was purposeful in his actions and outside the realm of banality, you were excusing his actions. Even though you obviously recognized the existence of evil, your post reads as though its genesis is accomplished by narrow means.

Your second post makes it clear that you believe that evil exists in Hitler. I’m glad to hear it. However even though I did read your original post, it was not made as clear as your protests suggest. You made assumptions about the nature of the argument that were wrong just as I made assumptions about your post that was wrong.

[Sappho]

Hitler was the most banal of all. He was afraid of everything, from his own mother to heights. He had a pathetic little comb-over and and eye-sore of a mustache. Most banal of all, he was impotent in love AND war.

I was referring to the original question, not post, in stating it already assumes evil exists. My mis-wording.

[Deamon]

The winner decides who is evil.

[Laurie]

Okay, so let me get this straight. Hitler wasn't evil. His actions were.

So if I shoot Sappho in the head, I'm not evil. My actions are. I aim the gun at his forehead, pull the trigger and with intentions of spraying his brains on the wall behind him, I'm not considered evil. Never knew such logic existed.

WAIT! It doesn't. Sorry Sappho, you lose. I'm the winner, and according to DeamonSeed....well, you know what he said.

[Eddy's Geist]

Daemon, my sentiments exactly. The victor writes history. While in my opinion the US was generally in the right in WWII there's enough evidence to point to the fact that the US also turned a blind eye to many horrors. Does that make the politicians who ran the war evil?

Let me ask you all something... what reasons existed in post world war germany that allowed Hitler to rise to power and how did a majority of the nation allow the jews to lose their businesses, their homes, their schools, and finally their lives?

Germany's economy and infrastructure were in shambles after the war... Hitler was able to pint out one segment of society that was relatively untouched. The Jewish population. When war broke out the jews weren't invited to fight and they rightfully declined as well. After centuries of being forced in to ghettos and excluded from power they had built a society that took care of their own. After the war, the jewish community was still in great shape when compared to the rest of germany. Hitler was able to use their prosperity and the illusion(?) that the Jews were doing nothing to help Germany rebuild itself to his gain by playing off the natural emotions of greed and envy that are inherent in most (all?) humans.

So, were all the people in germany evil? No, they were simply human.

[Sappho]

Laurie, you are only the winner until you're found and arrested. In this country, you are assumed innocent until proven guilty. Most likely you will be found guilty, as your evil actions prove that you embody evil, not are evil. Because you're human, and not evil incarnate, you'll be given fair shelter and food for the rest of your days, and probably a few second chances. Truth is the only winner here, albeit shaded by human lenses, and never fully clear.

If I call you evil, like many people are wont to do with Hitler, than I am denying the same evil powers that I embody, but do not necessarily act upon, as a human.

Eddy, my sentiments exactly. I repeat: ignorance and poverty are evil.

[Eddy's Geist]

You know, I probably shouldn't admit this as SOMEONE here on the forum will hold it against me but.. well.. I used to think that I was evil. I would torture and kill small animals. Especially defenseless ones like Guinea pigs and poodles. I started out trying to bring them back to life.. you know, necromancy and all that stuff. The spells in the Necronomican were so much BS though so I just started putting the corpses of the dead animals in to dioramas I made. One was a recreation of the fall of the Alamo. My therapist told me that the reason i did all this stuff wasn't because i was evil, It was because i was a homosexual... and the reason i was a homosexual was because I shot up heroin everyday. I think I originally became addicted to heroin because of all the molestation I was subjected to by my priest and his mother.. who was a senior citizen that smelled bad. Ok, I've ran out of crap to lie about. You may return to your regularly scheduled broadcast. http://bushwhacked.net/ubb/wink.gif

[jhans]

Sappho, I know you don’t like to say that “anyone” is evil, only their actions are. I know you are saying that it makes a difference because we need to recognize this tendency in all of us. I think that you are right that we need to stay vigilant with ourselves to insure that we don’t fall into a trap that allows us to commit, consent to or ignore evil, however, I think that your need to separate the person from the action to accomplish this is unnecessary. In my mind you are splitting hairs. I mean, if you find it necessary to make the differentiation to maintain your vigilance I don’t have a problem with it but I don’t think that it is necessary for everyone to do this. Your point about vigilance is a good one but I like to keep it simple. If someone acts like an idiot all the time then I feel comfortable with calling him an idiot. I do not believe that it lessens the fact that idiocy is really the actions/omissions that the person makes. If it acts like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s a duck.


P.S. I am curious how you define the term “banal”. I have always used it to describe something commonplace or ordinary, however, I am wondering if you use it to imply more than this. My brother informed me that he uses the word slightly differently than I do so I thought maybe you and I failed to communicate b/c possibly we use the term a little differently.

[Auff]

Eddy, you are a troubled man. Funny, but troubled.

[Sappho]

Banal means just that. Commonplace and utterly dull. If we go looking for evil in the form of something exciting and monstrous, we'll miss it right under our noses, like in the bed of poverty.

I have no doubts that Hitler was a bad, bad man and the agent of Evil. But he was a man, and not Satan. By your duck logic, if I do profound good for the world, does that make me the actual (and not symbol of) Good?

Maybe it is splitting hairs to separate action from person, but I think it's necessary when debating something as ephemeral as evil. Maybe it's just a matter of semantics.

[Laurie]

Hang on....I'm looking ephemeral up in the dictionary....

[Deamon]

Someone look it up..

[scannady]

Evil is not an absolute but completely dependent on the time/place/situation. Canabalism is evil unless your starving in the mountains, killing 20 people with a machine gun is evil unless its war. There are no moral absolutes, only social conditions that dictate what is good and evil that day.