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wrecker05
01-11-02, 06:30 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/01/10/ED123044.DTL
Beware the European view of the death penalty

Debra J. Saunders Thursday, January 10, 2002


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OUR BETTERS in the "international community" have decided that the Bush administration should cave in to European Union countries that oppose the death penalty.

All EU countries have abolished the death penalty. Last month, the European Parliament passed a resolution barring extradition to the United States from EU states unless Washington waives the death penalty and agrees to a public trial. French Justice Minister Marylise Lebranchu opposed capital punishment if a Virginia jury finds French citizen Zacarias Moussaoui guilty of involvement in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks that killed 3,000 civilians. Spain announced it won't extradite eight suspected terrorists unless the death penalty is waived. British Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon announced that British soldiers would not hand over Osama bin Laden, if captured, to U.S. troops without a guarantee that bin Laden would not be subject to the death penalty.

Thus, National Public Radio's Daniel Schorr wrote in the Christian Science Monitor that President Bush and U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft may have to sacrifice "something as ideologically sacred as capital punishment."

Translation: The Euros have jerked on the leash. Now America, bad dog, must heel.

The problem with the above picture is that it omits a salient fact: The EU does not prohibit extraditing suspects to countries that don't waive the death penalty. Au contraire, EU guidelines allow member countries to extradite prisoners, even if they could face the death penalty, as long as the receiving country adheres to "safeguard standards." These standards include reserving the death penalty for "the most serious crimes" and that the defendant be 18 or older at the time of the crime.

Clearly, EU rules, despite EU rhetoric, do not prevent the extradition of suspected terrorists because of the death penalty.

Maybe that's why the United Kingdom recently agreed to extradite to the United States Saudi businessman Khalid al-Fawwaz and two associates linked to the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Those attacks killed 224 people and injured 4,600. The U.K.'s Home Office has refused to tell the media if the United States agreed to waive the death penalty.

This suggests that for all the hand-wringing about how America must change to please Europe, some Europeans may see the benefit in letting America run its own justice system. It's called laissez-faire.

There's also a fairness issue here. The United States cannot embrace a policy that ditches the death penalty for terrorists involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, in which thousands of people were killed, yet keep it for Americans who kill, say, two people.

Of course, the death penalty critics are banking on that disparity to kill the death penalty outright.

Don't believe that the Europeans would stop at the death penalty if America were to abolish it. Guess what else the EU opposes: Life imprisonment. Indeed, an EU policy paper issued last month announces an EU trend of "moving towards keeping imprisonment to an absolute minimum." And: "It is well established that long-term imprisonment, and above all imprisonment for life, fails to achieve its criminal policy's goal, unless relevant measures are adopted in order to enable the return of the prisoner to social life at the appropriate moment."

So what starts as Don't Kill Osama, could become: Parole Osama. Too bad Americans are such barbarians that they don't appreciate the Europeans' refined sense of justice.

Deamon
01-15-02, 05:01 AM
Europe pushing the U.S around eh? About time, go start throwing your weight around europe! You are the true masters of the western world!

jhans
01-15-02, 10:25 AM
Deamon, I think I understand your confusion. You either aren’t old enough to have finished your 9th grade history class or you spent a lot of time out sick that year with that reoccurring brain virus that you have. Let me help you out. Basically, after Napoleon dies France is never able to regain its power and slowly erodes into a second tier state until the Germans decide to revoke France’s lease on Alsace Loran, Normandy etc……… Britain on the other hand continues to be fairly prosperous through Victoria’s reign and begins to fall into decay shortly thereafter. In an attempt to help France regain its lease from Germany Britain sends its expeditionary force to France whereby Germany informs Britain that unless the British remove their soldiers from Germany’s newly acquired Dunkirk beach, Germany will also revoke Britain’s lease on their island. Eventually America gets tired of Germany acting like it owns Europe and forecloses upon its entire fee title to Western Europe. America then turns Europe into a resort destination for all Americans to visit.

Auff
01-15-02, 04:18 PM
How many years will it be before one of the EU members smartens up and decides to go back to independence, and then a war starts out, and once again we have to go "over there" and do some serious butt kicking?

Deamon
01-15-02, 04:32 PM
Deamon lived in Europe for half his life and doesn't remember the history happening like that..

jhans
01-16-02, 10:24 AM
Chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot pie.........Deamon want green quarter?

Eddy's Geist
01-16-02, 10:33 AM
hahahahhahaa! The EU isn't our enemy! You fools... the WTO calls the shots now folks.

Macbeth
01-16-02, 10:42 AM
jhans - that was the funniest thing I have read in days. I can't even take it that was so funny.

jhans
01-18-02, 01:36 PM
I don't perceive the European Community as our enemy. I just felt that Deamon needed a history refresher so that he could properly account for Europe’s position in the world. I think he appreciated the help. He did note that he lived there half his life and appeared to note that he wasn’t informed about the events subsequent to the 19th century.

Spaz59
03-13-02, 02:01 PM
Deamon, I think I understand your confusion. You either aren’t old enough to have finished your 9th grade history class or you spent a lot of time out sick that year with that reoccurring brain virus that you have. Let me help you out. Basically, after Napoleon dies France is never able to regain its power and slowly erodes into a second tier state until the Germans decide to revoke France’s lease on Alsace Loran, Normandy etc……… Britain on the other hand continues to be fairly prosperous through Victoria’s reign and begins to fall into decay shortly thereafter. In an attempt to help France regain its lease from Germany Britain sends its expeditionary force to France whereby Germany informs Britain that unless the British remove their soldiers from Germany’s newly acquired Dunkirk beach, Germany will also revoke Britain’s lease on their island. Eventually America gets tired of Germany acting like it owns Europe and forecloses upon its entire fee title to Western Europe. America then turns Europe into a resort destination for all Americans to visit.
The thing that gets me is were is the pre nineteenth century stuff?