Happy Holidays?

[Auff]

Happy Holidays?

First, a warning. To the Political Correct, closed-minded, immature, or otherwise easily offended: read no further. If you choose to read on, you risk being mightily affronted.

Yes, I say “Merry Christmas”, not “Happy Holidays”, unless I am referring to the Thanksgiving through New Year season. Nor do I offer “Happy” through the litany of other holidays, such as Chanukah, Kwanzaa, or, most recently, Ramadan.

To paraphrase one of my best friends from high school, who happens to be Jewish, “Chanukah is a relatively minor Jewish Holiday. It has gained prominence only because it is scheduled close to Christmas. To elevate it to the level of the birth of Jesus, even if you don’t believe he is the Christ, could be viewed as a condescending. Aside from all that, Christmas is also a National holiday, and since I’m an American, it is only right that I celebrate it too.”

To paraphrase Michael Medved, one of my favorite contemporary intellectuals, who also happens to be Jewish: “Even if you are not a follower, you can’t deny that Christian philosophy has brought peace and prosperity to so many in the world, both Christian and non-Christian. We are much better off because of them, if we could have even survived without them at all.”

With regards to Kwanzaa, we all know this to be a completely made up holiday, invented only years ago. Look, it’s wonderful that African nations and should celebrate their great culture together. But in light of some pretty horrific tribal wars since this invention, it doesn’t appear to be bringing anyone closer together. The fact that it was intentionally scheduled in the proximity to Christmas suggests Kwanzaa was made to divide people, not bring them together.

Now, Martin Luther King day, that’s a different story. His most beloved philosopher was Jesus Christ, after all MLK was a Christian preacher. King also borrowed heavily from the teachings of Mahatma Ghandi, the world’s second non-violent revolutionary. King was a great man and it is right that we celebrate him, Black and White, together. We are all better off because of his teachings. If more would learn from him, we would all be better off still.

As far as the Ramadan thing, my jury’s still pondering. We never heard about it until after September 11. The first I heard about it was from the left leaning press to attempt a cease-fire right at the height of our rout in Afghanistan. It was correctly ignored by the Good Guys, just as it has been ignored by the Bad Guys during nearly all Islamic wars. Like Chanukah and Kwanzaa, until I see evidence that Ramadan is on par with Christ’s birth it will continue to be ignored by me.

Bottom line: For those who are Christian, you should be able to celebrate your holiday without fear or reprisal (but remember, it’s only the second most important Christian holiday). For non-Christians, may I respectfully invite you to join me in celebration of a man whose teachings have brought peace and prosperity to so many.

[Eddy's Geist]

GO FORTH CHRISTIAN WARRIOR!!!

Auff, why did you write "we" in regards to Ramadan? You may not have been aware of it prior to Sept. 11 but that's not to say that all Americans were ignorant of the holiday.

You pointed out that the muslims have never respected a ceasefire during "nearly all" instances of the Ramadan period. I find it difficult to accept this as fact from someone who claims to have never heard of ramadan and most certainly couldn't be considered an expert on islamic histrory. However, I could be wrong and I would stand corrected if you can prove this point... http://bushwhacked.net/ubb/wink.gif

Also... since when is the left leaning press corp made up of muslim dignitarys from Islamic nations?

[This message has been edited by Eddy's Geist (edited 01-03-2002).]

[Auff]

By "we" I meant the collective we, as in most Americans, or at least, my small window. Anyone I've talked to about the subject never heard of it until recently That includes my wife who could break the bank on Jeopardy. I've certainly never heard it mentioned as a Holiday greeting. But, hey, I live in the Bible belt.

No, I'm no expert on Islamic jihad, but the cease fire info I got from Donald Rumsfeld, who I understand is quite knowledgeable about the subject.

As far as the press being Islamic dignitaries, no, but by them pressing this issue it may appear that way. Funny, though, I feel that the leftists and the Islamics have several commonalties. Among these are: a) loathing of America's success and b) an appalling lack of understanding of modern economics.


[This message has been edited by Auff (edited 01-03-2002).]

[Eddy's Geist]

Donald Rumsfield??? Nice way of answering that you can't back up your statement. http://bushwhacked.net/ubb/wink.gif

By the way, would you care to explain why you used the term "Jihad"? Are you familiar with definition and the usages of the word?

[Auff]

So, you don't believe old Donny boy? What's with that? Perhaps the vast right wing conspiricy. Fact is, he's one of our finest patriots.

Jihad? Yes, and you infidel?

[Eddy's Geist]

It's not a question of whether I believe Rumsfield or not. The question was for you to back up the statement you made. Hey, Auff.. nothing personal.. but if you come on here and you make a claim... you should be able to either back it up or back down. That's what makes Bressler.org so fun.. and trust me.. I've been caught bullshitting plenty of times!

Personally, I'll go find the facts out for myself... I prefer it that way instead of having someone tell me what it is and what isn't. try it sometime.

As you don't know the definition of Jihad I'll fill you in. Jihad translates roughly as a blessing/reward that one earns when one has accomplished something momentous in life. For instance; a kid graduates from high school.. his friends and family will say "Jihad" to him. This is to say congratulations as well as saying what you have accomplished is an honor to islam.

That's about it... the definition of Jihad as"Holy War" is accurate in a sense but beyond that it's too simplistic. Kind of simplistic... like your response of answering a question with another question.

For your answer.. nah.. not infidel.. more satanist than anything. Hey, Auff.. maybe you can say a prayer for my soul!!! Woohooo! Gonna be saved!

[Deamon]

*raises a brow* Its strange how quickly the crusades are forgotten.. maybe thats what I'll make my next post about

[Auff]

Maybe we are at the start of the 4th one. A good idea or not?

Jihad, Eddy: since Rummy is an honest player and a patriot I'll choose to believe him. Esp. when he's backed up by C. Rice and other well respected intellectuals. So you tell me, how many "Holy Wars" have been temporarily stopped for Ramadan?

By the way, I find it interesting that you wish me to rely on press accounts (instead of Rummy) for the Ramadan cease fires, yet when I rely on the press for the definition of Jihad (just saw it again in today's newpaper: Jihad = Holy War) than thats no good.

[This message has been edited by Auff (edited 01-04-2002).]

[wrecker05]

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/watch/Policywatch/policywatch2001/581.htm

Consider this call from Palestinian Hamas, just last year: "Let us make Tuesday, Ramadan 17, into a day of jihad, a day of resistance to the occupation, so that the occupiers will know that our people has ousted them irrevocably." This Hamas edict refers directly to the battle of Badr, where the Prophet Muhammad fought against the Infidels on 17 Ramadan, 624 AD to liberate the city of Mecca.

Historical Cases of War during Ramadan

Muslims have fought in conflicts -- sometimes multiple -- that have persisted through Ramadan during thirty-seven of the last fifty-four years. In fact, there has been a total of sixty-one conflicts fought during Ramadan in this period. Examples include:

• Fighting took place over two Ramadans in the 1948 war between the Arab states and the new state of Israel.

• Fighting continued through nine Ramadans during the Yemeni civil war from 1962 to 1970.

• During Lebanon's civil war from 1975 to 1990, fighting took place over the course of seventeen Ramadans. In 1986, Christian forces called for a Ramadan ceasefire, which lasted just two weeks.

• In 1973, the Egyptians and Syrians waged war on Israel in what is called harb ramadan, or the Ramadan War.

• The Mujahedin fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989 through nine Ramadans. In April 1989, the Soviets offered a Ramadan ceasefire; this offer was rejected.

• Iran and Iraq battled from 1980 to 1988, spanning eight Ramadans. In fact, in 1981, Iran rejected a Ramadan ceasefire offered by Iraq. The third year of the war began with what the Iranians called the ramadan mubarak, or blessed Ramadan, campaign. In May 1987, Iraq again presented a Ramadan ceasefire proposal, only to be rejected.

• The first Palestinian intifada, lasting from 1987 to 1993, was waged over six Ramadans.

• In 1995, 1997, and 1998, the Armed Islamic Group (GIA) called for increased attacks against the Algerian government specifically during Ramadan. During Ramadan 1997, GIA members grabbed victims, stuffed their mouths with newspapers, and then proceeded to guillotine these "enemies of Islam."

• Fighting between the Northern Alliance and the Taliban has lasted through five Ramadans, beginning with Ramadan 1997, and is expected to continue through the coming Ramadan.

• The current al-Aqsa intifada in the Palestinian territories continued through Ramadan 2000, and is also expected to persist through this year's holy month.

It is worth noting that the only three Ramadan ceasefires ever proposed in modern history were suggested by Ba'athist Iraq, the former USSR, and the Christian forces in Lebanon.

[Auff]

I would say that qualifies as “nearly all”.

So Ramadan is a celebration of the liberation of Mecca? If so, that would put it on par with say, the US Independence Day. Gee, I don’t see many non-US celebrating our Independence. Not even the Brits! And we are supposed to celebrate is along with Christmas?

Wrecker, thank you for the history lesson. But since you're not a member of the press I'm not supposed to believe you.

[Eddy's Geist]

Wrecker, excellent reply (take notes Auff.. this is how ya do it!)

Nearly all? Not by far! Notice how the examples are all from the 20th century? Ramadan has been celebrated for more than 1300 years.

Ramadan isn't a celebration of the liberation of Mecca but a celebration of the month that they belive Allah revealed the first verses of the Qur'an to a wondering caravan trader by the name of Muhammed.

The only people I know who celebrate ramadan in the US are people of the Muslim faith. Though quite a few of those muslims also have Christmas trees in their houses and exchange gifts on Christmas day. Why? Well, it's kind of like your jewish friend who said it was an "American Holiday" so they celebrate it. More for the fun of giving presents though...

If someone has forced you or someone you know to celebrate Ramadan then please let me know... I'd kick their asses. I don't think anyone should be forced to celebrate any holiday against their will. As far as wishing a muslim "Happy Ramadan".. that's just plain, old fashion courtesy.

Come on Auff... who said that you were or were not supposed to belive someone if they were with the press?
I never once said to use the press for information... nice try, friend!

[This message has been edited by Eddy's Geist (edited 01-04-2002).]

[Deamon]

Why would the brits celebrate independence day. To celebrate they lost when they could've won it because the stupid parliment and public was too lazy to continue it.. much like 'nam, we could've won that, just like the brits could've slaughtered us.

[Laurie]

Eddy? You bullshit? C'mon? Really?

And who cares if someone says Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas. When I say that to someone, I generally refer to just Christmas and the New Year. Not every other freakin' holiday out there.

Who's this Donald Rumsfeld character, anyway?........*snickering*

[Auff]

Deamon, the Brits could never have won. We had guerilla warfare on our side. And compassion And the home team advantage. They had the French pestering them at sea, as well as offering US advice.

Vietnam we could have won. Although we had many of the same disadvantages we had a much smaller country geographically and more mobility (jets and heliocobopters). But you're right, we didn't have the commitment. Because it wasn't in our "sphere of influence". We didn't need to win, therefore we didn't want to win so therefore we lost.

[Eddy's Geist]

Laurie, it's true, it's true! I have bs'd on here before. Scouts Honor!

[Laurie]

*gasp* Eddy!! Why I never!! And to think that all along you've been on the level here. This is so damn disappointing. I'm hoping this doesn't set me back. I hated the asylum. http://bushwhacked.net/ubb/wink.gif

[WARTHOG]

What is this world coming to?

------------------
The 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

[wrecker05]

Islamic history is rife with instances where wars and conflicts continued during Ramadan. Mohammed himself participated in some of the campaigns.

The most famous instance was the Battle of Badr, which took place on the 16th day of Ramadan. Mohammed and 313 of his companions set out to intercept a caravan from Mecca. They were met by a well-equipped army of the nobility of Qurayish. The Qurayish ruled Mecca, and Mohammed considered them idolaters. Though outnumbered, Mohammed and his followers fought to a draw.

The final campaign against the Qurayish was also during Ramadan. Mohammed led a great army from Medina to Mecca to take and purify the Ka'aba, the holy shrine built by Abraham and Ishmael. Seeing the power of the army, the Quyarish surrendered Mecca without a fight. Following the city's occupation, Mohammed sent detachments to outlying areas, where Muslims destroyed the idols of al-Lat, Manat and Suwa. (Courtesy of American Forces Press Service)

[Eddy's Geist]

Hey, the whole idea of trying to wage peace for a 28 day period is nuts to me too. See, Christians did it right.. one holy day when all good men should put down their weapons and celebrate the birth of christ. Well, it's great in idea but in practice it's seldom if ever occurs.

Interesting story about a Christmas morning in WWI where German and French troops stopped fighting and climbed out of the trenches and shared coffee and cigs for a few hours. Their commanding officers were horrified...

All the same, Ramadan, like Christmas, is supposed to be a time of peace. If fighting occurs does that mean that the idea behind the holiday is a lie or wrong? Does every muslim partake in fighting during Ramadan, does every Christian? Of course not.

[Auff]

So I'm still at a loss to what Ramadan's all about. Wrecker alluded that it was a celebration of a war won, and Eddy said that was not true. So what is it?

[wrecker05]

Ramadan is the ninth month of the Muslim calendar. The Month of Ramadan is also when it is believed the Holy Quran "was sent down from heaven, a guidance unto men, a declaration of direction, and a means of Salvation"
It is during this month that Muslims fast. It is called the Fast of Ramadan and lasts the entire month. Ramadan is a time when Muslims concentrate on their faith and spend less time on the concerns of their everyday lives. It is a time of worship and contemplation

During the Fast of Ramadan strict restraints are placed on the daily lives of Muslims. They are not allowed to eat or drink during the daylight hours. Smoking and sexual relations are also forbidden during fasting. At the end of the day the fast is broken with prayer and a meal called the iftar. In the evening following the iftar it is customary for Muslims to go out visiting family and friends. The fast is resumed the next morning

According to the Holy Quran:


One may eat and drink at any time during the night "until you can plainly distinguish a white thread from a black thread by the daylight: then keep the fast until night"

The good that is acquired through the fast can be destroyed by five things -

the telling of a lie
slander
denouncing someone behind his back
a false oath
greed or covetousness

These are considered offensive at all times, but are most offensive during the Fast of Ramadan

During Ramadan, it is common for Muslims to go to the Masjid (Mosque) and spend several hours praying and studying the Quran. In addition to the five daily prayers, during Ramadan Muslims recite a special prayer called the Taraweeh prayer (Night Prayer). The length of this prayer is usually 2-3 times as long as the daily prayers. Some Muslims spend the entire night in prayer

On the evening of the 27th day of the month, Muslims celebrate the Laylat-al-Qadr (the Night of Power). It is believed that on this night Muhammad first received the revelation of the Holy Quran. And according to the Quran, this is when God determines the course of the world for the following year

When the fast ends (the first day of the month of Shawwal) it is celebrated for three days in a holiday called Id-al-Fitr (the Feast of Fast Breaking). Gifts are exchanged. Friends and family gather to pray in congregation and for large meals. In some cities fairs are held to celebrate the end of the Fast of Ramadan.

[Auff]

So, Mo got gets a revelation on the 27th day of the 9th month, then sits down and writes a book, hence the Quran. One prophetic event?

How many prophetic events, in all the major religions, have been written down through history? I would guess hundreds.

[Eddy's Geist]

Side note... found the translation for "Jihad".

http://www.irshad.org/islam/iiie/iiie_18.htm
JIHAD EXPLAINED
The Institute of Islamic Information & Education
Brochure No. 18

In the linguistic sense, the Arabic word "jihad" means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; a politician strives to maintain or increase his(1) popularity with his constituents and so on. The term strive or struggle may be used for/by Muslims as well as non-Muslims; for example, Allah, the One and Only True God says in the Qur'an:

"We have enjoined on people kindness to parents; but if they strive (Jahadaka) to make you ascribe partners with Me that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not..."
(The Holy Quran, 29:8; also see 31:15)

In the above two verses of the Qur'an , it is non-Muslim parents who strive (jahadaka) to convert their Muslim child back to their religion. *In the West, "jihad" is generally translated as "holy war," a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is unholy to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable.

If we translate the words "holy war" back into Arabic, we find "harbun muqaddasatu," or for "the holy war," "al-harbu al-muqaddasatu." We challenge any researcher or scholar to find the meaning of "jihad" as holy war in the Qur'an or authentic Hadith collections or in early Islamic literature. Unfortunately, some Muslim writers and translators of the Qur'an, the Hadith and other Islamic literature translate the term "jihad" as "holy war," due to the influence of centuries-old Western propaganda.

This could be a reflection of the Christian use of the term "Holy War" to refer to the Crusades of a thousand years ago. However, the Arabic words for "war" are "harb" or "qital," which are found in the Qur'an and Hadith.

For Muslims the term Jihad is applied to all forms of striving and has developed some special meanings over time. The sources of this development are the Qur'an (the Word of God revealed to Prophet Muhammad(S) [(S) denotes Sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam, meaning peace and blessings of Allah be upon him]. The Qur'an and the Hadith use the word "jihad" in several different contexts which are given below: