FRANCE (and Germany) Bashing Thread

[gopsdragon]

It must really piss them off that not everybody has forgotten.

Did Germany Win World War II?
By Lowell Ponte
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 24, 2003

Pontefications

During decades of its dismemberment, de-Nazification, apparent defeat and dependence on Western aid and armed NATO protection against the Soviet Union, such a question would have seemed absurd.

But in the wake of Soviet dissolution and Germany’s 1990 reunification, look at what is emerging in the world.

Adolf Hitler had declared that he would end 400 years of “civil war” among neighboring nations and turn Europe into a single, unified socialist power able to conquer the world. This unified Europe of Hitler’s vision would, of course, be dominated by Germany.

Before our eyes at this dawn of the 21st Century, Europe is emerging as a single, unified socialist power of more than 300 million people bent on conquering its sole serious rival, the United States.

These united states of Europe are dominated by the European Union’s most powerful member, Germany. Its new common currency, the Euro, is really just the Deutsche Mark in disguise, with EU fiscal and monetary policies effectively controlled by German bankers and bureaucrats.

And days ago Germany’s socialist ruler Gerhard Schroeder, only months after his reelection as a virulently anti-American candidate, declared that he would do all in his power to thwart any U.S. war against Iraqi dictator and mass murderer Saddam Hussein.

Chancellor Schroeder forced delay of a vote supporting America by NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. And he vowed to use Germany’s February turn as chair of the United Nations Security Council as best he could to delay and stymie President George W. Bush’s policy towards Iraq.

Germany’s ally in promoting European against American interests, as it was during World War II, is France. Six decades ago a conquered and compliant France was all too eager to cooperate with Hitler, masking its occupation with the name of Vichy, a name shared with a resort spa mineral water said to bring health and long life.

Today the French drink another mineral water, Evian, whose name spelt backwards is “Naïve.” But make no mistake – the eagerness of French President Jacques Chirac to be Germany’s handmaiden in raising a unified, anti-American Europe means we are again facing Vichy France. The only European nation resisting a German-dominated united Europe is Great Britain, with neo-Laborite Prime Minister Tony Blair cast in the role of Winston Churchill. It’s déjà vu, and political deja voodoo, all over again.

The French role as Germany’s Sancho Panza might to an outsider seem strange. France, after all, declared itself liberated from an unwanted occupation following World War II – and depicted itself as one of America’s and Britain’s victorious allies.

As a “Great Power,” France was granted permanent membership and a permanent veto, just like the United States, on the Security Council of the United Nations. France became one of the first nations to possess nuclear weapons. Why, if Europe is to be united, should France play second fiddle to a revanchist Germany?

The French have an unlimited appetite for glory and grandeur. But their attempt to unify Europe under military dictator Napoleon Bonaparte two centuries ago failed. It died in the frozen retreat from Moscow and against British and Austrian guns at Waterloo.

France’s imperial ambition to rule Mexico was thwarted by President Abraham Lincoln and the barefoot guerrilla fighters of Benito Juarez. Its grab for India, like that for Canada, was bested by British skill at Quebec’s Plains of Abraham and India’s Pondicherry.

In this death of a thousand cuts to its pride, following World War II France would be driven from its colonies in Vietnam and Africa. It in humiliation surrendered that land on the opposite shore of the Mediterranean lake that Paris had declared not just a colony but a district of France itself – Algeria.

In military terms, France was defeated by Germany in 1872’s Franco-Prussian War. It was bled white by World War I, saved from defeat largely by British and American allies. (As one French statesman boasted to colleagues during that “war to end all wars” – a war started in part by French arrogance – France was “ready to fight to the last American.”)

And, of course, France during World War II itself became little more than a German colony owned by Hitler’s Nazi regime. Who in Europe today would think of France as a political, economic or military power superior to a reunified Germany?

France’s last grasp for Glory came with General Charles De Gaulle, who resolved the bloody terror struggle over Algeria, visited Quebec to urge its independence from Canada, withdrew France from NATO’s force structure in 1965, and declared that France now targeted its nuclear weapons on “all azimuths” (aimed at Western as well as communist nations).

De Gaulle, long before Bill Clinton, sought to practice “triangulation.” He tried to position France as the great power between capitalist and communist power blocs to which Third World nations could turn. This cynical positioning aimed at a minimum to make France the gatekeeper and middleman on the new Silk Road between East and West, able to exact bribes and cooperation fees from both sides during the Cold War. By how France tilted, De Gaulle believed, it could maintain a profitable balance of power between the two sides of a bipolar world – and thereby force both sides to court France.

This arrogant Gaullist policy failed. Totalitarian Soviets could not keep up with America’s growing power and innovation. The English-speaking nations also won the global culture war, and new generations worldwide looked to Hollywood and London instead of Paris to find modernity.

And France, with its economy devastated by high taxes and bureaucratic regulations, has been reduced from global leader to global Disneyland – a place where tourists come to feast on tasty food and wine, see quaint peasants and admire century-old Impressionist paintings. But what industrial product made in France does anybody buy? (By contrast, the new British Rolls Royce and Bentley are now designed by German auto makers.)

Nowadays Gaullist politicians such as Chirac seek a new way to divide and conquer. France, whose Mirage jets helped Israel to victory in the 1967 Six Day War, has tilted to the side of the world’s 1.2 billion Muslims. It was a French Osirak reactor being built for Saddam Hussein on the outskirts of Baghdad that Israeli jets preemptively destroyed in 1981. France reportedly has extensive commercial deals involving Iraq’s oil and oilfields that would vanish if Hussein were overthrown.

France, too, has fear. Fifteen percent of its population is now Muslim, mostly immigrants from Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco. (Remember whose Vichy government ran Casablanca – the “White House” – in what may be the best Hollywood movie of all time.) France is slowly being taken over by such immigrants making love, not war, while native French are having fewer than 1.4 children per couple.

But the anti-Semitism and synagogue attacks in France are not coming entirely from this growing Muslim population. Remember the Dreyfus Affair. And remember that during World War II Vichy France gleefully rounded up 75,000 French Jews and shipped them off to Hitler’s death camps. More than opportunism now seems to be driving France to side with 1.2 billion Muslims against the mere six million people of Israel.

This is the context in which Germany and its French pet poodle (from the German meaning “puddle,” the French poodle being a water dog of German origin) are opposing U.S. policy in Iraq. For their new European superpower to rise, America’s power in the world must sink. This is why, for example, both France and Germany are demanding that the U.S. sign the Kyoto global warming protocols – so that American industry can be shackled by the same tough regulations and high taxes that hobble France and Germany.

And this is why Germany and France now want an independent European military force. And European Union embassies around the world. And even their own European global positioning satellites to break their dependence on the current American-controlled GPS system. Their aim is nothing less than the creation of a unified Europe able to challenge and defeat the United States as an economic, military and cultural superpower.

“You’re thinking of Europe as Germany and France,” said U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to a reporter asking about their behavior. “I don’t. I think that’s the old Europe. If you look at the entire NATO Europe today, the center of gravity is shifting to the east. And there are a lot of new members.” Those other nations, said Rumsfeld, “are with the United States.”

As you can imagine, France and Germany have reacted petulantly to Secretary Rumsfeld’s firm truth-telling.

President Bush on January 23 announced that France and Germany will be “held to account” if they refuse to back tough action to disarm Saddam Hussein. Mr. Bush may demand a unified Western policy.

As part of that accounting, America’s Security Council veto should be used as ardently to prevent German nuclear armament as our policy is now being used – despite short-sighted French and German opposition -- to prevent the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

Unless the German people remove from office Leftist extremists like Gerhard Schroeder, America may face almost as great a long-term threat from Bonn as we do from Baghdad.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5742

[evereno]

Germans guilty in Iraq supergun case -- A court in the German city of Mannheim has convicted two businessmen of supplying weapons-making equipment to Iraq in violation of UN sanctions. Engineer Bernd Schompeter was sentenced to five years and three months for dealing in drills that can be used for boring tubes for long-range cannons, capable of launching nuclear, chemical or biological warheads.

A second defendant, Willi Heinz Ribbeck, was given a two-year suspended sentence for failing to alert his superiors to the sale of the drills to Mr Schompeter by his Burgsmueller machine company.

Both defendants, who are in their 50s, have confessed to the main charge of supplying the equipment.

Mr Schompeter admitted delivering the drills to an Iraqi-born US businessman in Jordan, from where they were sent on to Iraq.

But he denied knowing the equipment could be used to make large guns.

Other investigations

Prosecutors are seeking extradition of the third man, Sahib Abd al-Amir al-Haddad, following his arrest in Bulgaria in November.

The BBC's Jonathan Charles says prosecutors are hoping the punishments will deter others from helping Iraq to obtain weapons.

There are concerns that this may not be an isolated case and investigations into other companies are continuing.

Last December, Tageszeitung newspaper reported that over 80 German companies were listed in Iraq's weapons report to the UN.

Several of these were still involved in Iraq last year, thereby breaking the UN weapons embargo.

Of further embarrassment to Germany is that - according to the newspaper article - German companies make up more than half of the total number of institutions listed in the report.

Under UN resolutions, Iraq is allowed to possess long-range artillery, but the export of new weaponry, or weapon-making equipment, to the country is banned.

It is not known whether Iraq has actually built any of the long-range guns yet, but if it has they could be used against troops taking part in a US-led invasion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2712903.stm

[Eagle3]

Democracy in action... and the people have spoken. I find it especially enjoyable to see his anti-war and US attitude biting him in the ass.

Embattled Schroeder vows to fight on - BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2720829.stm) - Beleagured German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has vowed to press ahead faster with a programme of reforms, despite suffering an election mauling in two key regional polls. Voters in Mr Schroeder's home state, Lower Saxony, and in Hesse deserted the Social Democrats in their hundreds of thousands.

The elections were seen as a crucial test for Mr Schroeder, whose government is reeling from the effects of economic problems, unemployment and rising taxes.

Mr Schroeder told reporters on Monday that he accepted primary responsibility for the party's collapse - which he described as "one of the most bitter defeats I have known".

ELECTION RESULTS

Lower Saxony

Christian Democrats 48.3% -up 12.4
Social Democrats 33.4% - down 14.5
Free Democrats 8.1%
Greens 7.6%

Hesse

Christian Democrats 48.8% - up 5.4%
Social Democrats 29.1% - down 10.3
Greens 10.1% - up 2.9
Free Democrats 7.9% - up 2.8
Source: Official preliminary results
"We have to speed up the tempo of change," he said.

He said that the government would have to work harder to bring down unemployment, and to improve the health system.

Resignation, he said, was not being considered.

A German Government spokesman also denied rumours of a cabinet reshuffle or other major political changes.

But analysts say Mr Schroeder will now be forced to co-operate with his conservative rivals nationally to get key legislation passed, and rival factions within the Social Democrats were expected to move further apart.

Mr Schroeder's government, narrowly re-elected four months ago, has been floundering in the polls ever since.

'Debacle'

Even his popular anti-war stance in Iraq could not save him from the voters' backlash, analysts say.

German media used dramatic terms to describe the collapse in the Social Democrats' support - characterising it as a debacle, or rout - with some even questioning whether the chancellor himself could survive.

"Is This Schroeder's End?" asked the headline in the tabloid Bild newspaper.

A government spokesman acknowledged that "incontestable federal political influences" had taken their toll.

Angela Merkel
This is an important signal to the European allies and the American Government

Angela Merkel
Christian Democrat leader
The bitterest pill for Mr Schroeder to swallow may be the result in Lower Saxony, where he was governor for eight years and still has a home.

Despite his personal contacts, the Social Democrats' support plummeted about 14 points to 33%.

In Hesse, the drop was 10 points, to 29.1%.

In both states, the main beneficiaries were the conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) who extended their absolute majority in Hesse, and will probably form a coalition with the Free Democrats in Lower Saxony.

The results give the CDU - the parliamentary opposition - an increased majority in the federal upper house, the Bundesrat. It will force Mr Schroeder to co-operate with the CDU to get laws passed.

About 10 million people were eligible to vote in the two states, with turnout around 65%.

Iraq implications

The CDU's leader, Angela Merkel, expressed satisfaction with the results, stressing that Germans did not support Mr Schroeder's policy of antagonising the US on the Iraq issue.

"This is an important signal to the European allies and the American Government," Ms Merkel told the Associated Press news agency.

If he doesn't get himself out of his cul-de-sac on Iraq, he may decide to step down and pave the way for a change of government

Frank Decker
Political scientist
"I think much is at stake for German foreign policy," she said, adding that the CDU had a valuable friendship with the US "not just out of gratitude but because of the long-term security of Europe and Germany".

Political analysts also said Mr Schroeder's stand on Iraq could prove decisive.

"If he doesn't get himself out of his cul-de-sac on Iraq, he may decide to step down and pave the way for a change of government," said Frank Decker, political scientist at Bonn University.

On domestic issues, the regional losses may, paradoxically, translate into a boost for some of Mr Schroeder's reforms.

The conservative Christian Democrats are more likely than Mr Schroeder's own Social Democrats to support his tough business-friendly reform proposals.

Chancellor Schroeder's government has tumbled further and faster in the opinion polls than any other post-World War II government.

[evereno]

Walker's World: The seduction of Chirac
By Martin Walker
UPI Chief International Correspondent
From the International Desk
Published 2/5/2003 12:45 PM


WASHINGTON, Feb. 4 (UPI) -- French President Jacques Chirac, like most recent occupants of the Elysee Palace, constantly feels the need to measure himself against his great predecessor, le grand Charles. Never has it been more clear just how pitifully Chirac fails to meet that grandiose standard.

Forty years ago, when President John F. Kennedy was rallying support from his allies during the Cuban missile crisis, Charles de Gaulle waved away Kennedy's offer to send a personal envoy to Paris bearing prints of the famous aerial photographs showing the presence of Soviet missiles on the island.

"France does not need evidence to take the word of the president of the United States," De Gaulle said.

Chirac cannot even be satisfied with the clear evidence that Saddam Hussein has failed to meet the obligations imposed upon him by U.N. Resolution 1441. The Security Council did not say that the U.N. inspectors would be sent in looking until they found something. They demanded that Iraq prove its compliance to the satisfaction of the inspectors, and this Iraq has palpably failed to do.

So what is to be done about France, which only keeps its special U.N. status as a permanent member of the Security Council (with a veto) because of De Gaulle's wartime efforts?

Realists in foreign policy tend to be pessimists. So Richard Perle, the former assistant secretary of defense who today probably wields more influence as chairman of the Pentagon's Policy Advisory Board, sees France as a lost cause. At a seminar of Iraqi exiles and U.S. security experts in Washington this week Perle suggested France was no longer an ally and warned that the U.S. and its friends in Europe "must develop a strategy to contain our erstwhile ally or we will not be talking about a NATO alliance."

But then there are romantics in foreign policy who tend to be optimists, and against all the immediate evidence, Britain's Tony Blair and U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell continue to trust that France might just come good in the end.

In their eyes, Chirac may be giving a virtuoso display of the erotic arts of diplomacy, spinning out with infinite guile and delicious restraint the process of seduction.

Now he advances, now he retreats, teasing with Gallic subtlety the stolid White House into the quivering thrills of delayed gratification until -- just as the tanks begin to roll -- a single bugle sends the strains of the Marseillaise across the desert battlefields and the Foreign Legion parachutes in.

Saddam tumbles, and George W Bush crumples with relief.

If that be the Parisian scenario, then the foreplay has hardly begun, despite the dangerously high expectations of Colin Powell's presentation of the American case against Saddam Hussein at the United Nations Wednesday. The French will wait at least until the next report by Hans Blix and the U.N. inspectors on Feb. 14, St. Valentine's Day. Paris may well want to wait even longer to another Blix report in the first week of March. As any experienced seducer would say, why rush the pleasure?

From Chirac's point of view, everything is going just fine. The world waits on his word. France is back in the driving seat. And he is even picking up some handsome tips, gigolo-style, along the way.

Blair, whose eagerness to be seen as a good European should never be under-estimated, decided last week to award France's Thales group with one-third of the $10 billion contract to build Britain's two new aircraft carriers. He even suggested that while Britain's own BAE Systems (formerly British Aerospace) should be the lead contractor, they should build the French design.

This handsome gratuity was not enough for Chirac. He may be waiting some more tangible symbols of American regard, like quiet guarantees that the development contracts signed with Saddam's Iraq by France's Total-Fina-Elf oil giant will be honored by Saddam's eventual successors. He may even -- though this would be unusual -- be acting on the highest and most unsullied of principles. Or Perle might have been right all along to say that "France is no longer the ally it once was."

Whether Perle is right or not about the French, it might make sense to treat them as if he were. Bush's concession of a U.N. process has not brought Chirac round. Blair's little gratuity has not bought his support. What the experienced seducer most fears is the thought of rejection, the dismaying realization that his old skills no longer work and that his game is up. Maybe that's the way to treat the elderly libertine who now tries to fill the shoes of de Gaulle.


http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=20030204-065357-2737r

[shotglass]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/06/wgerm06.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/02/06/ixnewstop.html


Rise in jobless another blow for Schröder
By Kate Connolly in Berlin
(Filed: 06/02/2003)


Chancellor Gerhard Schröder was dealt another blow yesterday when German unemployment shot up by almost 10 per cent in the biggest monthly increase for five years.

Nearly 400,000 Germans lost their jobs in January, taking the total to 4.6 million, or one in nine of the entire workforce.


Gerhard Schröder: hoping reforms will save the economy
The rise for the same period last year was 250,000 and the previous year 280,000.

Wolfgang Clement, the economics and labour minister, yesterday admitted the seriousness of the figures, saying they were a reflection of the country's "grave structural problems".

Opinion polls showed that Germans have spectacularly lost faith in the ability of Mr Schröder, who suffered a humiliating defeat in regional elections this week.

There is a higher than average monthly rise in unemployment every January because temporary workers taken on for the Christmas holiday season are dismissed at the end of the year.

But this year's rise was mainly attributed to a sluggish economy which is causing consumers to buy less and employers to lay off workers.

The figures were met with virtual silence from government quarters, and the head of the Federal Employment Office, Florian Gerster, sought to play down their significance.

"Not only do the indices lack clarity and consistency so far, but there is usually a time-lag between general economic developments and the labour markets anyway," he said, predicting that the figures would improve once the government's reform policies started to take effect.

Germany's economy is in its gloomiest state for several years, with a low growth rate bringing it close to recession and unemployment.

The government is accused of mismanagement by failing to introduce reform, while at the same time tax rises have angered voters and cut consumer spending. It has proposed a number of changes in the labour market, such as increasing the efficiency of job centres and introducing low-paid jobs.

But reformists widely agree that the proposals do not go nearly far enough to have a significant effect on the economy.

Mr Schröder faces opposition from traditionalists within the ranks of his own Social Democrats and from the trade unions, which have accused him of undermining the German welfare state, considered one of the most comprehensive in Europe, and increasing job insecurity.

Analysts say that unless Germany slims down its welfare system, reduces its extremely high non-wage labour costs and deregulates its rigid labour market, the economy has no hope of recovery.

Germans' belief that Mr Schröder is not necessarily the man to steer the country out of its crisis was reflected in a survey published today by opinion pollsters Forsa, in which 69 per cent said the chancellor's ability to run the country was "minimal".

In the same survey the popularity of the ruling Social Democrats was shown to have sunk to 27 per cent while that of the opposition Christian Democrats was 49 per cent.

[gopsdragon]

400,000 new troops to invade France. Thankfully our army will be in the middle east and unable to defend Paris.:D :D :D

[Eagle3]

Video game makers are already preparing. :hehe:

http://www.brokennewz.com/images/ultimatesurrender.jpg

[Eagle3]

This issue is due out next week...
http://www.binarystorage.net/clients/flashbunny/pics/frenchy.jpg

[Eagle3]

Truth hurts Germany.

BBC - Rumsfeld remark outrages German press (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_reports/2736571.stm)

Donald Rumsfeld's latest comments comparing Berlin's attitude to a war on Iraq with that of Cuba and Libya have touched a raw nerve in Germany's press. "Axis of the ignorant" is how the left-leaning Tageszeitung headlines its report.

"Sarcastro" writes Berlin's Tagesspiegel. "Rumsfeld's latest jolt" says the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. The Hamburger Morgenpost clearly feels irony is called for: "Hooray, at last we have some friends!"

Mystified
In their commentaries, even Germany's centre-right dailies find it hard to stomach Rumsfeld's opinion. The conservative Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung says "there are good reasons to criticize the German position on Iraq.. but this is a mixture of tastelessness and insult."

"Verbal jostling just hardens positions even further, because every government has to save face", the paper warns. The tabloid Bild, which is normally a friend of all things American, is equally mystified. "Government outraged - Rumsfeld compares us with Libya and Cuba" is its headline. The paper reports "head-shaking" in Chancellor Schroeder's office, and lists politicians from all parties who have rejected the US defence secretary's remarks.

Serious affair
The centre-left Tagesspiegel admires Rumsfeld's "entertainment value". "A friendship must be able to withstand his honesty", the paper concludes, "but he must be able to take ours as well."

But Berlin's Tageszeitung takes the whole affair more seriously. It sees Germany's arguments against war within the context of "the legal and political order of the world's states". The paper says the world faces a choice: "US world domination or a multi-voiced concert, mono-centrism or poly-centrism".

The Berliner Zeitung is equally philosophical. "Never again war! Never again Auschwitz! Those are the lessons of German politics", it writes. "But can we continue to draw our principles from the 20th century - a century of extremes?"

'Outrageous, but true'
Only one major paper - Berlin's Die Welt - shows some understanding for the Rumsfeld comments. "Outrageous, but true", it says. It warns of even worse to come if Germany votes against a possible second UN resolution on Iraq. "Berlin's plunge into the company of pariahs, thieves and the usual suspects for anti-American activities would be complete."

[gopsdragon]

Germany isn't a security council member with veto power is it? For the good of the world can we redivide Germany by UN resolution?

[Eagle3]

No, they're not.

http://www.un.org/Overview/Organs/sc.html#MEMBERS

[gopsdragon]

EU constitution under fire: Giscard: Accused of imposing his views - The first draft of a future European Union constitution has run into sharp criticism, just hours after its release. The first 16 articles of the draft were unveiled on Thursday by a special forum, the Convention on the Future of Europe.

The UK Government was one of the first to call for changes to the draft, raising concerns about use of the word "federal" and suggestions that the EU would have powers to control foreign and economic policy. The BBC's William Horsley says the draft reflects the wish of Germany and some other states for the EU to act much more like a single state with a single government.

Eurosceptics also attacked the draft, which demonstrates what they see as a drift towards statehood.

"This is a one-way street to an EU state," Reuters news agency quoted Danish MEP Jens-Peter Bonde as saying.

"This track will lead us to a deeper level of integration than in the United States."

June deadline

The agency said Mr Bonde accused the president of the convention, Valery Giscard d'Estaing, of trying to ensure his views prevailed in the final draft.

CONVENTION REPRESENTATIVES
National governments and parliaments

European Commission

European parliament

13 candidate countries

Non-governmental organisations and academia

Peter Hain, who is one of the UK representatives at the convention, said the British Government was disappointed by the inclusion of the word "federal" in article 1 of the draft.

But he said there was "absolutely no chance" of a federal superstate being set up in Brussels.

Mr Giscard D'Estaing defended the draft, saying it set out clearly the values, aims and powers of the EU despite time limitations.

The 16 articles include the following :


1: The constitution establishes a union within which policies of member states will be co-ordinated , and which shall administer certain common competences on a federal basis. The union will respect the national identities of those states
2: The Union is founded on values of respect for human dignity, liberty, democracy, the rule of law and respect for human rights

9: The constitution shall have primacy over the law of the member states

13: The union shall co-ordinate the economic policies of the member states

14: Member states shall support the union's common foreign and security policy and shall refrain from action contrary to the union's interests or likely to undermine its effectiveness.

Members of the forum have until17 February to propose amendments to the text drafted by the convention's presidium.

A final draft will be presented to the 15 EU governments by late June.

[Eagle3]

Damn! If only this could happen in France..... and Iraq.... and North Korea.... and.....

Schröder's coalition near collapse over leak (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-573483,00.html)

From Roger Boyes in Berlin
GERMANY’S coalition Government was on the brink of collapse yesterday as details emerged of a row between Gerhard Schröder, the Chancellor, and Joschka Fischer, the Foreign Minister, who threatened to quit over differences on Iraq. Herr Fischer, the leader of the Green Party, was enraged over weekend press leaks of a Franco-German plan to establish a UN protectorate in Iraq. The leak, to Der Spiegel magazine, appeared to come from the Chancellery or Social Democrat headquarters.

The Foreign Minister immediately telephoned Herr Schröder to demand an explanation. “It was a loud and emotional exchange of views,” a German diplomat said. “Relations between the Chancellor and his Foreign Minister have plunged into an ice age,” Bild newspaper said. Last night Berlin denied that there was a rift between the men.

Herr Fischer was involved in attempts to boost the presence of UN inspectors in Iraq. He appears to have passed on some information to the Pope during a meeting on Friday. But the detail in the plan published yesterday, including a proposal for UN troops to man roadblocks in Iraq with French Mirage jets flying overhead, did not form part of Foreign Ministry calculations.

German diplomats are well aware that an American plan for a robust UN inspection system was floated last year and dropped, having drawn little international enthusiasm. A European reworking of that plan, drawn up without the consultation of the United States, would be seen only as an affront by Washington.

Herr Fischer has seen his diplomatic options diminish in the past six months as Herr Schröder became more vocal in his opposition to war. Germany’s isolation was evident at the weekend’s defence conference in Munich, attended by Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, where Herr Fischer bore the brunt of American fury at Germany’s stand on Iraq.

Herr Fischer has now been snubbed at least three times by the Chancellor. He was not warned in advance when Herr Schröder started to mobilise voter support during the general election campaign by warning against a US-led war. He was also wrong-footed when the Chancellor announced that Germany would never accept a UN resolution “legitimising a war” against Iraq. Herr Schröder has also mocked and publicly called to order one of Herr Fischer’s key diplomats, the German envoy to the UN.

Herr Fischer’s authority depends on public support from the Chancellor, on close European co-operation beyond the Franco-German axis, on the trust of Washington and on discipline within his Green Party. All these pillars have crumbled since the general election six months ago.

When rumours of resignation spread three weeks ago, the Chancellor called in Herr Fischer for a “clarifying talk”. But for two hours the men, formerly friends who forged the idea of a Social Democratic-Green alliance in a pub conversation some 20 years ago, conducted a shouting match.

Later the Chancellor declared, to the irritation of Herr Fischer: “Let’s face it, the grass roots of the Green Party are closer to me than to the Foreign Minister.”

[Band Camp Productions]

Hey, I'm ready. Just so long as we can liberate the cars before we nuke the country.

GERMANS FEAR U.S. THE MOST (Sky News) - A majority of Germans think the United States poses a bigger threat to world peace than Iraq or North Korea, a survey has showed. The NFO-Infratest survey for Der Spiegel weekly came a day after about half a million people rallied against a US-led Iraq war in Berlin.

Asked from which country posed the greatest danger to world peace, the United States, Iraq or North Korea, 53% of the 1,000 people surveyed named the US. Of those surveyed, 28% said Iraq and 9% North Korea.

The poll also asked whether Germans owed the US a debt of gratitude for helping to rebuild Germany after the second world war and for protecting its peace and freedom during the cold war. In the survey, 62% answered "no" while 34% said this was still the case.

Only 31% of Germans surveyed believed the US was a guarantor of peace and security in the world, compared to 48% in April 2002. German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is one of the strongest opponents of a war in Iraq and his stance has upset relations with the US.

The survey showed 69% shared Schroeder's opposition to military action, while 27% said they did not support his stance.

Although 87% of those polled said the US would remain an important ally of Germany in the future, for many Germans Europe has a more important role.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-12248252,00.html

[Television]

World peace doesnt exist. The truth is that we are a threat to european complacency.

[Pistol Pete]

The arrogance of this frog SOB :mad:


Chirac blasts eastern Europeans over pro-American stance, warns on EU membership
Mon Feb 17, 5:45 PM ET

By PAUL AMES, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - French President Jacques Chirac launched a withering attack Monday on eastern European nations who signed letters backing the U.S. position on Iraq, warning it could jeopardize their chances of joining the European Union (news - web sites).

"It is not really responsible behavior," he told a news conference. "It is not well brought up behavior. They missed a good opportunity to keep quiet."

Chirac was angered when EU candidates Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic joined pro-U.S. EU members such as Britain, Spain and Italy last month in a letter supporting Washington's line on Iraq against the more dovish stance of France and Germany.

Paris was further upset when 10 other eastern European nations signed a similar letter a few days later.

France argued that the moves aggravated splits in the 15-nation EU and backed the ideas put forward by U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld who had earlier spoke of France and Germany as "old Europe" in contrast to the easterners seeking to join the EU and NATO (news - web sites).

"Concerning the candidate countries, honestly I felt they acted frivolously because entry into the European Union implies a minimum of understanding for the others," Chirac told reporters after an emergency EU summit on Iraq.

He warned the candidates the position could be "dangerous" because the parliaments of the 15 EU nations still have to ratify last December's decision for 10 new members to join the bloc on May 1, 2004.

Chirac particularly warned Romania and Bulgaria, who are still negotiating to enter the bloc in 2007.

"Romania and Bulgaria were particularly irresponsible to (sign the letter) when their position is really delicate," Chirac said. "If they wanted to diminish their chances of joining Europe they could not have found a better way."

Britain, Spain and other EU nations had suggested the candidate nations attend Monday's emergency summit on Iraq, but France and Germany opposed the idea.

Although Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) were the driving forces behind the letter backing America and EU members Italy, Denmark and Portugal also signed up, Chirac saved his wrath for the candidates.

"When you're in the family you have more rights than when you're knocking on the door," he said.

Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Cyprus and Malta are set to join in May 2004. Lagging behind economically, Romania and Bulgaria were told to wait three more years.

Instead of attending the EU summit, the candidates are due to travel to Brussels Tuesday for a briefing on its outcome by Greece, which currently holds the EU presidency.

Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis denied they had been excluded from the summit because of their backing for Washington, insisting rules require the treaties be signed first.

"We will not discuss pro-American or anti-American positions," Simitis told a news conference. "The candidate countries will be members" soon, and "we have to proceed together."

[JBMoney]

This is going to get very interesting.

There's already a lot of discontent in EU ranks with the heavy-handedness of the EU bureaucracy. A short while ago you had the German-France plan to grab all the power and run the show and now you have France telling members & potential members that they ought to know when to shut up.

At the rate it's going, between Iraq, the UN, the EU and NATO... I'll put my bets on NATO being the most likely to last the year.

[JasmineDreamz]

Is this going to turn into another survivor showdown? Hopefully we get to be the survivors.

[shotglass]

Let's start an AU, and American Union. The continent of Europe can be renamed East America, membership requires at least one military victory, and you have to wait 2 years, for quarantine purposes.

France - your membership is null, your only military victory was in your civil war, and beating yourself, something the French are good at, does not count.

[Eagle3]

This one kills me. When is he going to get a clue that no one is listening to him or at the very least, doesn't care about what he's saying?

Furious Chirac hits out at 'infantile' easterners - The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,897891,00.html)

Ian Black in Brussels
Tuesday February 18, 2003

Jacques Chirac last night launched a furious attack on east European candidates for EU membership, saying they had behaved "recklessly" in making pro-American statements on the Iraq crisis.

Speaking at the end of the emergency Brussels summit, the French president astonished diplomats and dismayed the European commission and other governments by accusing the incoming and aspirant members of "infantile" and "dangerous" behaviour.

Letters signed by Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, with current EU members Britain, Spain, Italy, Denmark and Portugal, and by the so-called Vilnius 10 group of EU and Nato candidates were "not well-brought-up behaviour," he complained.

"They missed a good opportunity to keep quiet. When you are in the family, after all, you have more rights than when you are asking to join and knocking on the door," Mr Chirac said, warning Romania and Bulgaria that they had been particularly incautious since they were still seeking EU membership.

Mr Chirac's fury betrayed France's anxiety at the way the club it helped to found is set to change beyond recognition when it admits 10 new members next year - and anger at the distinction made by Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, who dismissed France and Germany as "old Europe" compared with the pro-American easterners.

[evereno]

Chirac is full of the junk he stuffs his face with. All I have to say, is let me know when he is coming back and i will give his the nozzle to chew on.

Tuesday, Feb. 18, 2003

Chirac: I Love America and its Junk Food

America may be currently on a hate-the-French kick, but France’s president swears he likes America and despite his nation’s reputation for haute quisine the one-time Howard Johnson’s soda jerk says he also loves our junk food.

In an interview published in the Feb. 17 issue of Time magazine President Jacques Chirac insisted that despite our differences over Iraq, France is not anti-American.

"It's a true friend of the United States and always has been,” Chirac said. "It is not France's role to support dictatorial regimes in Iraq or anywhere else. Nor do we have any differences over the goal of eliminating Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. For that matter, if Saddam Hussein would only vanish, it would without a doubt be the biggest favor he could do for his people and for the world. But we think this goal can be reached without starting a war. …

"I've known the U.S. for a long time. I visit often, I've studied there, worked as a forklift operator for Anheuser-Busch in St. Louis and as a soda jerk at Howard Johnson's. I've hitchhiked across the whole United States; I even worked as a journalist and wrote a story for the New Orleans Times-Picayune on the front page. I know the U.S. perhaps better than most French people, and I really like the United States. I've made many excellent friends there, I feel good there. I love junk food, and I always come home with a few extra pounds. I've always worked and supported transatlantic solidarity. When I hear people say that I'm anti-American, I'm sad — not angry, but really sad.”

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/2/17/235010

[evereno]

At least it is nice to know that European leaders are not going to let this weenie of a Frenchman dictate their policy decisions.

'Arrogant' France Angers Pro-U.S. Europeans

NewsMax.com Wires
Wednesday, Feb. 19, 2003

BRUSSELS, Belgium – Senior politicians from the 10 former communist countries waiting to join the European Union hit back Tuesday at French President Jacques Chirac for describing them as "childish and irresponsible" for backing the U.S. stance on Iraq.
"Jacques Chirac should regret such expressions, which are not in the spirit of friendship and democratic relationships," said Romanian President Ion Iliescu.

Bulgarian Deputy Foreign Minister Lubomir Ivanov described the comments as a sign of France's infamous "nervousness." "This approach will not help to create unity in the Security Council."

Sofia is one of the few members of the U.N. body to support the U.S.-led military buildup in the Persian Gulf.

Asked whether he thought Chirac was trying to bully the future EU members, Czech Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Vonda replied bluntly, "That's the way it seems."

Chirac made his controversial remarks at the end of an emergency EU summit on Iraq on Monday, to which the newcomers were not invited.

The French president, who is no stranger to summit rows, told reporters the future member states were "on the one hand not very well brought-up and a bit unaware of the dangers that a too-rapid alignment with the American position could bring with it."

Last month, the leaders of the 10 countries, which are due to become full members of the EU next year, published a joint letter supporting the U.S. position on Iraq. Three of the states also signed a letter of support for Washington along with EU members Britain, Spain, Italy, Denmark and Portugal.

Such a Unilateralist

Chirac raged Monday, "They should have kept quiet." The septuagenarian leader hinted that France might block the countries' EU membership bids when they are due to be ratified later this year.

As candidate country leaders met Tuesday to be debriefed on the outcome of the EU summit, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who pushed unsuccessfully for the countries to attend Monday's meeting, rode to their rescue.

"They have as much right to speak up as Great Britain or France or any other member of the European Union today. They know the value of Europe and America sticking together."

'Patronizing and Arrogant'

Chirac's jibes also received a verbal mauling from members of the European Parliament. British Labor deputy Gary Titley said: "These comments are patronizing and arrogant. In typically Gaullist fashion, Chirac is trying French bully-boy tactics on new members of the club."

After a tense meeting on Tuesday, the 10 states, along with Cyprus, Malta and Turkey, agreed to throw their weight behind an EU statement calling for Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to disarm immediately or face the threat of war.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/18/135848.shtml

[Sister Zombie]

Originally posted by evereno
Chirac is full of the junk he stuffs his face with. All I have to say, is let me know when he is coming back and i will give his the nozzle to chew on.




Naaaa....just give him the gift of a big pile of crawfish boiled in too much Zatarain's. It'll be the gift that keeps on giving for a few days.

[Pistol Pete]

The lyin' bastard :mad:

[JasmineDreamz]

Found a quote here that is talking about life, but could be applied here as well.

Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5

..........a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full fo sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[JBMoney]

Originally posted by JasmineDreamz
Found a quote here that is talking about life, but could be applied here as well.

Perfect! Well done. :thumbsup:

[Band Camp Productions]

Chirac finding pro-us stances hard to stomach (UK Herald, 2/18) - AMID the mocha coffee and the petits four, Jacques Chirac lost the argument. Shortly afterwards at his press conference, he lost his temper too.

Sources keeping a delicate diplomatic distance in the grand European Council dining room reported that Monsieur le President was steadily being forced into a corner.

Kofi Annan, the UN secretary-general, fully aware that the international body's future is on the line, began by appealing to the 15 EU leaders to act together. The international community, he said, demanded that their leaders unite around a common line.

He also told it to the heads of government straight: that if Saddam Hussein continued with his defiance, then the security council would have no option but to face up to its responsibilities - confront the Baghdad regime with military force.

At Mr Annan's hawkish stance, Mr Chirac stood up and, with Gallic passion, began a defence of the French position.

Flinging his arms up and down, he declared that war was a terrible thing and that thousands of innocent people would lose their lives in a second Gulf war. "It is a question of life and death," he said.

It was suggested that, at this point, the most dramatic moment of the evening occurred. Silvio Berlusconi, the diminutive Italian premier, eyeballed Mr Chirac and insisted: "I'm just as concerned about life and death as you are."

He asked the French president to consider what happened to innocent people in Bali and in New York's twin towers.

Then, the normally mild-mannered Bertie Ahern, the taoiseach, interjected and pointed out that the only person getting away with defying the will of the international community was Saddam.

He added that the weapons inspectors could not go on indefinitely.

By this time, Mr Chirac was positively steaming at the pro-American forces reigned against him. But there was more.

Jan Peter Balkenende, the new Dutch prime minister, underscored the hawkish line, saying the issue was Iraq's full compliance and that it was now just a matter of weeks, not months, before the matter had to be resolved. "We have to reinforce the pressure on Iraq," he said.

Spain's Jose Maria Aznar also called for international cohesion, pointing out that the UN had only got so far with the Iraqi dictator by threatening force.

Then, Tony Blair said his piece, deriding the 12 years of deceit by Saddam and stressing he had to come into compliance "100%".

Looking at his colleagues one by one, he told them bluntly: "There is no intelligence agency of any government around this table that does not know that the government of Iraq has weapons of mass destruction."

In a passionate conclusion, the prime minister said: "If Saddam stays, the Iraqis will pay with their lives."

Later, at his press briefing, a bouyant PM was asked about ill-feeling over the hors d'oeuvres and roties aux truffes. He smiled quizzically. "It doesn't help if we simply fall out with each other. I'm not commenting on the French position. They have got their position, we have got our position."

Indeed, it seemed on one level Paris and London had worked out a viable compromise. The key phrase being that the inspectors "must be given the time and resources the UN security council believes they need. However, inspections cannot continue indefinitely in the absence of full Iraqi co-operation."

Yet, judging by the temper of the French press conference, one could be forgiven that, having been edged out over the Nato deal on defensive aid for Turkey, Paris was once again feeling a mite left out in the Belgian cold.

Mr Chirac, who last year put off a UK-France summit after Mr Blair was supposedly "very rude" to the septagenarian politician, let fly at the eastern European EU wannabees, who came out in print so fervently in favour of the UK-US position and against the "old Europe" axis of France and Germany.

In a few well chosen mal mots, the French premier let rip, saying: "They missed a great opportunity to shut up."

He went on in his best professorial tone: "These countries have not been very well-behaved". They had acted "recklessly" by not appreciating the "danger of aligning themselves too rapidly with the American position".

Yesterday, as Mr Blair faced the most difficult two weeks of his political life, it had been expected he would be the one suffering from pre - and post - summit indigestion and indignation. Last night, however, it looked as though it was Mr Chirac who, following the osso buco and carpaccio d'ananas, was the one looking a bad mix of green and red.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/archive/18-2-19103-0-19-59.html

[gopsdragon]

New Information Ties Chirac to Hussein
By Gregg Bish
GOPUSA News
February 20, 2003

HOUSTON, TX (GOPUSA News) -- According to the online subscription-only news service Stratfor.com, French resistance to a war with Iraq may go deeper than simple French distaste for war. There may be an element of personal loyalty between French President Jacques Chirac and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

Stratfor.com released information claiming that Chirac said he was "truly fascinated" by Hussein during a 1987 interview with the Manchester Guardian. Other information indicates that Chirac facilitated agreements between Baghdad and Paris resulting in the purchase of a seventy megawatt nuclear reactor and fuel in 1975, and the purchase of a one megawatt research reactor.

Reportedly, France also agreed to train six hundred Iraqi nuclear technicians to service the budding Iraqi nuclear industry in exchange for a lucrative Iraqi oil contract.

Additionally, the French magazine Le Canard en Chain reported correspondence between Chirac and Hussein. The correspondence praises "the cooperation launched more than twelve years ago for the sovereignty, independence and security of your country," according to Le Canard en Chain.

If true, the connection between the Iraqi nuclear industry and French President Jacques Chirac could seriously cloud the French President's moral claim to have the interest of the Iraqi people at heart in seeking to avoid war.

While the information reported by Stratfor.com, and brought to public attention by syndicated talk show host Rush Limbaugh on Wednesday, could not be verified through routine means, the article quoted extensively from material published by Le Canard, the Manchester Guardian, and the New York Times. The coverage, published as early as 1974, again in 1981 and 1986, continued through 1988. Reportedly, former French President Valerie Giscard D'Estaing halted the arrangements with Iraq in 1994, saying that Chirac's actions were entirely apart from the French government.

Chirac has been the wheelhorse of the anti-war movement in the United Nations and the EU, seeking any means possible to stymie and delay efforts to force Saddam to disarm. Most recently, when efforts to prevent NATO protection of Turkey in the event of war came unraveled, and following a harsh EU statement demanding Iraqi disarmament in the face of stern consequences, Chirac scolded his fellow EU members and threatened prospective EU countries.

http://gopusa.com/news/2003/february/0220_chirac_husseinp.shtml

[shotglass]

(Jonah Goldberg, Townhall.com, 02-22-03) - For nearly five years I've been bandying about a funny ethnic slur -- borrowed from "The Simpsons" -- and just when I was about to abandon it, the rest of the world discovered it. Amid all the kerfuffle over American-European relations the last few weeks, esteemed writers in The Washington Post, The Economist, The New York Review of Books, Slate, Canada's National Post and several British papers have all referred to the French as "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" and most of them credit me with popularizing the phrase.

Now, I'll admit, it's nice to be noticed (although I'd rather it had been for something like curing cancer or figuring out what Trent Lott's hair is made of). But the dynamic right now between America and France -- and America and Europe more generally -- is more complicated than even the best "Simpsons" humor can capture. And if I'm going to be considered a purveyor of anti-French vitriol on the right, I might as well get to make my case.

My problem -- America's problem, really -- with the French boils down to two things: What they say and what they do. Rhetorically, the French, along with their gentle-giant pals the Germans, claim that they are leading a "new Europe." The unifying myth of the "new Europe" is that over the last 50 years it has achieved peace and prosperity through endless blather in Zurich hotel conference rooms.

"Europeans have done something that no one has ever done before: create a zone of peace where war is ruled out, absolutely out," Karl Kaiser, director of the Research Institute of the German Society for Foreign Affairs told the Chicago Tribune. "Europeans are convinced that this model is valid for other parts of the world." Or as The New York Times' Ethan Bronner wrote recently, "Through common economic interests, education and relentless talk, the Europeans have forged a new world for themselves."

The problem with all of this is that it's absurd. Europe's accomplishments are great and good and all that, but the European model isn't what it is portrayed as being. The reason Europe remained peaceful during most of the last half of the 20th century is that it had a common enemy to the east in the form of the Soviet Union and a protector and leader to the west in the form of the United States. For much of the Cold War, the U.S. carried the bulk of the defense burden of Europe, in effect subsidizing the lavish welfare states the French and others now take for granted.

It's a classic free-ride problem. The Europeans have benefited from the global stability provided by the United States. But the Europeans -- or at least the French and Germans -- now take that stability for granted and berate the United States for doing what it sees as necessary to ensure continued peace and prosperity. Unfortunately, the idea that violence never solves anything is a fraud. Violence ended the Holocaust; in the U.S., it freed the slaves. And, in 1998, American-led violence ended slaughter in the Balkans while European paper shufflers stood by paralyzed.

The French and Germans claim that the United States is a "bully" and a "cowboy" largely because America can do things the French and Germans can't or won't. Their own military capacities are woefully deficient, and so they champion peace at any cost in part because they're loath to admit they couldn't fight if they wanted to. If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. If all you have is a briefcase full of petitions and human rights lawsuits, every problem is going to call for more paper shuffling.

It's not all that surprising that the power imbalance has led to envy and festering resentment. Throughout the 1990s, French bookstores bulged with such books as "Who Is Killing France? The American Strategy" and "American Totalitarianism." "No Thanks, Uncle Sam" was a best seller written by a member of the French Parliament who concluded, "It is appropriate to be downright anti-American." A more recent French best seller suggested that America itself plotted the 9/11 attacks.

Indeed, anti-Americanism is so strong in France -- in part because French governments encourage the sentiment -- that French governments have wide latitude to do just about anything they want so long as it is seen as being contrary to American interests.

Which brings us to the second problem with the French: What they do. France's long-term ambition for the new Europe has always been to lead a united European Union that could rival the United States in global influence. "What is the point of Europe?" Charles de Gaulle once asked. "It must serve to prevent domination either by the Americans or by the Russians." With the Russian threat gone, France considers it even more important to block "domination" by the U.S. This is their chief motivation for blocking U.S. efforts to oust Saddam Hussein.

Certainly, as a matter of realpolitik this long-term strategy is intellectually defensible. The practice of one state trying to check the influence of another is a time-honored tradition. But this isn't a game of Risk between family members where you team up with your brother to keep your father from winning the game. As de Gaulle's statement reveals, French foreign policy has a tendency toward blindness when it comes to good guys and bad guys. (Witness the recent invitation of Zimbabwe's thug-in-chief Robert Mugabe to Paris.) Indeed, equating American and Soviet "domination" -- even rhetorically -- as equal threats is not merely stupid; it is morally outrageous.

France is playing a similar game with Iraq, claiming that the United States is the bad guy in this scenario. Never mind the ingratitude of a country saved by U.S. military action twice in one century, what is truly galling is that France's motives toward Iraq are profoundly more cynical and selfish than our own. In addition to their desire to curb U.S. influence in the region, the French are far more hungry for Iraqi oil money than the United States. If we were hellbent on Iraqi oil, we would lift the sanctions tomorrow in exchange for fat oil contracts -- something Hussein has suggested in the past. Or we could have just taken Iraq's oil a decade ago when we briefly occupied the region. America has no interest in fighting a war for oil. But France desperately wants "peace for oil."

In exchange for France's opting out of the no-fly zones and denouncing the pain and suffering inflicted by Iraqi sanctions, Hussein has consistently rewarded the French with lucrative contracts through the oil-for-food program. An American-led war would end that.

Indeed, there's almost no criticism of the United States that doesn't apply with greater or equal force to France. The French are certainly willing to trade blood for oil, just so long as it's not their own. And if it's true to say that America helped "create" Hussein, it's doubly accurate to say it of the country that sold him a nuclear reactor. The only difference between the two countries is that America is eager to correct its mistakes while France is entirely at peace with letting Hussein continue murdering and terrorizing his subjects and neighbors.

It's true, the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" isn't particularly accurate here. The French aren't being cowards: They're more like cheese-eating appeasement monkeys, willing to negotiate with evil for short-term advantage. If that makes them heroes to the anti-war movement, so be it. But it doesn't make them principled -- and it certainly doesn't make them our friends.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20030222.shtml

[Pistol Pete]

Now this is the way to view Paris.

[Pistol Pete]

My! How some things never change.

[Butterlugs]

In my bifd for the noebl piece prize, in earlier emails i put forth the proposition that the french intellectual gene pool was weakened by the mass executions during their revolution, and that is the reason for their sorry state of affairs at current. As proof of this, I offer the following website.

http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/NationalIQs.html

[gopsdragon]

Thanks Butterlugs. Now I have empirical proof for what I've always known naturally.

[Eagle3]

Just more reasons to dislike/trust the French. :nolike:

Iraq strengthens air force with French parts (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030307-545570.htm)
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

A French company has been selling spare parts to Iraq for its fighter jets and military helicopters during the past several months, according to U.S. intelligence officials.
The unidentified company sold the parts to a trading company in the United Arab Emirates, which then shipped the parts through a third country into Iraq by truck.
The spare parts included goods for Iraq's French-made Mirage F-1 jets and Gazelle attack helicopters.
An intelligence official said the illegal spare-parts pipeline was discovered in the past two weeks and that sensitive intelligence about the transfers indicates that the parts were smuggled to Iraq as recently as January.
Other intelligence reports indicate that Iraq had succeeded in acquiring French weaponry illegally for years, the official said.
The parts appear to be included in an effort by the Iraqi military to build up materiel for its air forces before any U.S. military action, which could occur before the end of the month.
The officials identified the purchaser of the parts as the Al Tamoor Trading Co., based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. A spokesman for the company could not be reached for comment.
The French military parts were then sent by truck into Iraq from a neighboring country the officials declined to identify.
Iraq has more than 50 Mirage F-1 jets and an unknown number of Gazelle attack helicopters, according to the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies.
An administration official said the French parts transfers to Iraq may be one reason France has so vehemently opposed U.S. plans for military action against Iraq. "No wonder the French are opposing us," this official said.
The official, however, said intelligence reports of the parts sale did not indicate that the activity was sanctioned by the French government or that Paris knows about the transfers.
The intelligence reports did not identify the French company involved in selling the aircraft parts or whether the parts were new or used.
The Mirage F-1 was made by France's Dassault Aviation. Gazelle helicopters were made by Aerospatiale, which later became part of a consortium of European defense companies.
The importation of military goods by Iraq is banned under U.N. Security Council resolutions passed since the 1991 Persian Gulf war.
Nathalie Loiseau, press counselor at the French Embassy, said her government has no information about the spare-parts smuggling and has not been approached by the U.S. government about the matter.
"We fully comply with the U.N. sanctions, and there is no sale of any kind of military material or weapons to Iraq," she said.
A CIA spokesman had no comment.
A senior administration official declined to discuss Iraq's purchase of French warplane and helicopter parts. "It is well known that the Iraqis use front companies to try to obtain a number of prohibited items," the official said.
The disclosure comes amid heightened anti-French sentiment in the United States over Paris' opposition to U.S. plans for using force to disarm Iraq.
A senior defense official said France undermined U.S. efforts to disarm Iraq last year by watering down language of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441 that last fall required Iraq to disarm all its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.
France, along with Russia, Germany and China, said yesterday that they would block a joint U.S.-British U.N. resolution on the use of force against Iraq.
French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin told reporters in Paris on Wednesday that France "will not allow a resolution to pass that authorizes resorting to force."
"Russia and France, as permanent members of the Security Council, will assume their full responsibilities on this point," he stated.
France has been Iraq's best friend in the West. French arms sales to Baghdad were boosted in the 1970s under Premier Jacques Chirac, the current president. Mr. Chirac once called Saddam Hussein a "personal friend."
During the 1980s, when Paris backed Iraq in its war against Iran, France sold Mirage fighter bombers and Super Entendard aircraft to Baghdad, along with Exocet anti-ship missiles.
French-Iraqi ties soured after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait that led to the 1991 Persian Gulf war.
France now has an estimated $4 billion in debts owed to it by Iraq as a result of arms sales and infrastructure construction projects. The debt is another reason U.S. officials believe France is opposing military force to oust Saddam.
Henry Sokolski, director of the private Nonproliferation Policy Education Center, said French transfers of military equipment to Iraq would have "an immediate and relevant military consequence, if this was done."
"The United States with its allies are going to suppress the Iraqi air force and air defense very early on in any conflict, and it's regrettable that the French have let a company complicate that mission," Mr. Sokolski said.
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell last month released intelligence information showing videotape of an Iraqi F-1 Mirage that had been modified to spray anthrax spores.
A CIA report to Congress made public in January stated that Iraq has aggressively sought advanced conventional arms. "A thriving gray-arms market and porous borders have allowed Baghdad to acquire smaller arms and components for larger arms, such as spare parts for aircraft, air defense systems, and armored vehicles," the CIA stated.
Iraq also has obtained some military goods through the U.N.-sponsored oil-for-food program.
A second CIA report in October on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction stated: "Iraq imports goods using planes, trains, trucks, and ships without any type of international inspections — in violation of UN Security Council resolutions."

[Pistol Pete]

Weeners

[Pistol Pete]

An interesting read. Who knows? Could be true as wacky as the world is.

http://jewishworldreview.com/michael/ledeen.html

[Pistol Pete]

A few quotes.

Gen. George S. Patton
"I'd rather have a German divsion in front of me than a French one behind me"

Mark Twain
"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks, it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes."

JB Money
"Fuck France"

[Homer Simpson]

Marge Simpson
"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it."

[Eagle3]

P. J. O'Rourke
"The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of New Jersey. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know."

John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona
"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it."

Jay Leno
"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam
out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!"

Winston Churchill
"The heaviest cross I had to bear was the Cross of Lorraine"

Conan O'Brien
"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he
hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He IS French, people."

[greensparkle]

Originally posted by Homer Simpson
Marge Simpson
"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it."
Ah ha...the french don't stand..... those horizontal lines across their butts are from sitting on the fence too long...... :hehe:

[Laurie]

:laugh:

[JBMoney]

I'll merge this with the other thread eventually, so if it disappears, you know why. But I just had to post this seperate.

Can you even imagine a US hotel chain overseas taking down the American flag to hoist up an allegedly aggrieved nation's in its place?

They skipped the white flags altogether!!!

Isn't that some kind of protocol breach? Shouldn't their be a discussion of terms first.

French goods face U.S. backlash: Sofitel hotels, fearful of anti-French sentiment, take precautions; some vendors report ambivalence. (03-13-03, Parija Bhatnagar CNN)

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - French opposition to a war in Iraq appears to be creating a backlash against all things French in the United States.

Products decidedly French like wines, cheese and even French-owned hotel chains like Sofitel lately have been on the receiving end of some angry American consumer sentiment.

French flags no longer are flying high and proud outside the Sofitel Hotel in midtown Manhattan. The French-owned hotel chain, part of the French hotel company Accor whose units include U.S. motel chains Red Roof Inn and Motel 6, replaced the flags with the Stars and Stripes as a peace offering to its American guests.

Sofitel spokesman Paul Charoy said the company last week decided to remove the French flags in front of all eight of its hotels in the United States as a "precautionary" measure and replaced them with a combination of the American flag and city and state flags.

"We wanted to calm down the situation a little," Charoy said. "We were getting some severe feelings and threats directed toward the safety and security of our employees and customers."

"This is not a political consideration," Charoy said. "The move is temporary and we just wanted to be safe."

Charoy added that about 70 percent of the hotels' customers in the United States are American.

Marc Refabert, founder of fromage.com, a Tours, France-based distributor of French cheese with about 8,000 customers in the United States, said he's been getting hostile e-mails from some of his American customers. He's even divided them into three categories -- the polite rebuffs, the "shocking" letters, and some that said "Vive la France."

"Some of these letters are really disgusting," Refabert said. "Even if we don't agree on the French position, it does not justify those kind of letters. On the other hand, a few Americans are writing to us saying they're supporting us."

According to Michael Aaron, chairman of Manhattan-based Sherry-Lehman wine store, his customers were also showing some ambivalence toward French goods.

"We've had a few customers who came in and said only show us American wine and no French wine," Aaron said. "But when we went over our February sales numbers for French wines, they were up 12 percent over last year."

"I think American consumers are talking out of one side of their mouth and still drinking French wine in from the other," Aaron said.

But Serge Bellenger, president of French-American Chamber of Commerce, said that although he's noted a few isolated incidents of anti-French sentiment against French businesses, he doesn't see it rising to a bigger wave against all French products.

"I think the American and French business communities will respond to it accordingly if something like that happens," Bellenger said. "You have to remember that 50 percent of all international trade is between Europe and the United States, and France has about $120 billion of direct investment in the U.S. That's a lot of French business and a lot of money."

France is the ninth-largest trading partner of the United States, according to the U.S. International Trade Commission.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/13/news/companies/sofitel/index.htm

[Eagle3]

Hot Damn! Does this mean Paris is ours? First thing I'm doing is gutting the Louvre and putting in a Hockey rink! :thumbsup:

[Sideout]

:confused:

[Eagle3]

Bonded By Blood? (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003120439,00.html)
http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003120263,00.gif
By DAVID WOODING
Whitehall Editor

FRENCH President Jacques Chirac stood accused last night of being a blood brother of Iraqi tyrant Saddam Hussein. Evil Saddam has slaughtered millions of people during his decades in power. And yesterday Chirac killed off a final push for peace by blocking an 11th-hour bid to force the Butcher of Baghdad to disarm.

The French president — dubbed Le Worm — was said to have poisoned the process when he refused to back a move to avoid war. Britain wanted to hand Saddam a list of six demands he would have to meet to avoid destruction of his regime by UK and US forces. With a united front, it could have ended the crisis without a single bullet being fired.

But the French president dismissed the ultimatum within minutes — even before Saddam had a chance to examine it. And he vowed to veto ANY new resolution put before the United Nations Security Council. Chirac’s stubborn stand sparked a bitter war of words between Britain and France. Prime Minister Tony Blair claimed Chirac had brought war closer by easing the pressure on Saddam to destroy his weapons of mass destruction. America also tore into the French leader, accusing him of giving succour to his “friend” Saddam.

But it was Mr Blair, who has worked round the clock for a peace deal, who was most furious. He claimed the “unreasonable” French had wrecked hopes of winning a second UN resolution to show the world’s desire for a concerted effort to tackle Iraq. In a brutal put-down, Mr Blair’s official spokesman said: “France rejected our tests before Iraq. Enough said.” He accused Chirac of turning his back on a commitment to disarm Saddam when he supported the last UN resolution in November.

The spokesman said: “This is poisoning the diplomatic process. “It’s clear what we meant when everyone — including France — signed UN resolution 1441. “When we warned Saddam would face serious consequences if he failed to comply, we didn’t just mean more weapons inspectors.”

Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said it was “extraordinary” that France was prepared to vote no to any proposal, regardless of its content. He said: “Without proper consideration, the French government has rejected these proposals. “We will continue to work for a peaceful end. But this obviously makes that process more difficult.”

Chancellor Gordon Brown added: “It is an unreasonable blockage of an international agreement.”

The military preparations continued while Mr Blair pursued his quest for peace. His plan would have given Saddam seven to ten days to meet the six tough conditions. They would insist he first go on TV to tell the world he is ready to destroy his weapons. He would then be forced to allow 30 weapons scientists to be interrogated and lead UN inspectors to his missiles, unmanned drone planes, and chemical and biological dumps.

The draft resolution was circulated among Security Council members on Wednesday night — but swiftly snubbed by the French. The row plunged Britain’s chilly relationship with France into a deep freeze. Experts feared it could take years, even decades, to rebuild the shattered entente. Tory foreign affairs spokesman Alan Duncan said: “They have been hypocrites on the second resolution from the start.”

Britain’s former ambassador to Washington, Sir Christopher Meyer, accused Chirac of “inhabiting a box with Saddam”. In a ferocious attack on Paris, he said: “They are in effect giving comfort to Saddam Hussein.”

The Queen was put on stand-by last night to give official royal backing to war on Saddam. Tony Blair ordered the monarch to cancel Monday’s visit to Brussels in order to invoke the Royal Prerogative needed before troops go into action. She will rubber-stamp the move at an emergency War Cabinet meeting on Monday. MPs will be given a chance to vote in a special debate on Tuesday — but by then the war is expected to have started.

COMMONS leader Robin Cook signalled he may quit if Britain goes to war without UN backing. Mr Cook warned it was “inconceivable” for Mr Blair to order troops into action only on a vote by MPs. But the PM is determined to drive the issue through Parliament, backed by the vast majority of Labour and Tory MPs.

[evereno]

March 14, 2003

Explosive messages for every war
From Glen Owen and Michael Evans
Our repoters with the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing in the Gulf

THE message scrawled on the side of an American bunker-busting bomb being wheeled out into the desert was blunt: “Fuque the French” had been scrawled on the side by a member of the US Air Force.
Painting war graffiti and taunts on bombs and shells is one of the great traditions of warfare. But normally it is the enemy that is the target for the abuse, not a Nato ally. However, senior American officers at this munitions plant in the desert — known colloquially as “Ammo country” — said the French gibe “crossed the line” of acceptability.

“I don’t think that is necessary,” said Chief Edwards, the plant’s second in command. “France is still an ally.”

But when the enemy is the target anything goes. In the First World War, the heaviest calibre artillery shells were often chalked with messages such as: “Present for the Kaiser”. It was not only the troops who chalked on the messages. Many bombs coming off the production lines at home were inscribed before going to war zones.

Keith Miller, of the National Army Museum, said it was a tradition in every war. “The names have changed but the terms of abuse have remained as primitive as ever. It’s not a sophisticated art form.”

In the Second World War it was common to see “Up yours, Adolf”. In the 1991 Gulf War, that was changed to “Up yours, Saddam”.

In Vietnam, the Americans liked to use the slogan “Kilroy is here” — meaning simply that Kilroy, an archetypal American soldier, was everywhere, sorting out the world.

The missiles that rained down on Taleban and al-Qaeda targets last year bore messages remembering the September 11 attacks. “I Love New York,” “Kill, kill, kill. This one’s for New York,” or, remembering the firefighters who died, simply: “FDNY”.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-610213,00.html

[evereno]

March 14, 2003 - Wireless Flash
Canadian Couple Explains `Why We Hate The French'

MONTREAL (Wireless Flash) -- "Sacre bleu!" A Canadian couple has made an amazing discovery about French people: They can be rude.
Montreal-based writers Jean-Benoit Nadeau and Julie Barlow studied the French extensively for a new book, "60 Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong: Why We Love France But Hate The French" (Sourcebooks) and say they can be jerks even if you speak French.

However, the couple say further research revealed that the French aren't rude, but "hyper polite" in a manner that may seem strange to North Americans.

For instance, shopkeepers consider their businesses their homes so walking in without saying "bonjour" is as bad as walking in on them while they're in the shower.

They're also fond of public confrontations. Barlow says, unlike Americans and Canadians, Parisian couples have screaming arguments anywhere they please.

Still, Nadeau and Barlow admit some things about the French defy explanation -- such as their love of Jerry Lewis.

http://ncbuy.com/news/wireless_news.html?qdate=2003-03-14&nav=VIEW&id=95H9Q802JT0030314

[greensparkle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JBMoney
[B]I'll merge this with the other thread eventually, so if it disappears, you know why. But I just had to post this seperate.

Yeah, got that.....duh...
..whatever you are on.......just pass it around ;) ;)

[Ether_Elemental]

Originally posted by evereno
They're also fond of public confrontations. Barlow says, unlike Americans and Canadians, Parisian couples have screaming arguments anywhere they please.

no wonder they don't have good personal hygiene. it just makes the whole scene even more offensive

[JDub]

SEVERE EARTHQUAKE IN FRANCE

February 14, 2003. Today it was reported that severe earthquakes have occurred in 10 different locations in France. The severity was measured in excess of 10 on the Richter Scale. The cause was the 56,681 dead American soldiers buried in French soil rolling over in their graves. According to the American Battle Monuments Commission there are 26,255 Yankee dead from World War I buried in 4 cemeteries in France. There are 30,426 American dead from World War II buried in 6 cemeteries in France. These 56,681 brave American heroes died in their youth to liberate a country which is guilty of shameful behavior in the 21st century. Many Americans never forget their sacrifice; as it appears the French have! :mad: :nolike:

[Pistol Pete]

Well, it could happen. :rolleyes:

[evereno]

http://www.newsmaxstore.com/contribute/france/washtimes.gif

[evereno]

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/FrancePartDeux/FranceGIFS/matson.gif

[Eagle3]

From the "Day Late Dollar Short" Files. I present the French. You just knew this was coming. Got to protect their interests you know. :fbomb:

FRENCH U-TURN ON IRAQ WAR (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1084093,00.html)
France has announced it could assist any US-led military coalition if Iraq uses chemical and biological weapons.

The turnaround comes after strong French opposition to a war in Iraq, including threats to veto a UN Security Council resolution paving the way for armed conflict.

French ambassador Jean-David Levitte said: "If Saddam Hussein were to use chemical and biological weapons, this would change the situation completely and immediately for the French government."

Mr Levitte said a decision on any French participation in the war would be made by French President Jacques Chirac, if and when biological or chemical weapons were used.

Although he declined to give details on the possible shape of French participation, Levitte said, "We have equipment to fight in these circumstances."

[JBMoney]

.

[shotglass]

Damn, I wish I had though of that.

[greensparkle]

Originally posted by eagle3
From the "Day Late Dollar Short" Files. I present the French. You just knew this was coming. Got to protect their interests you know. :fbomb:

FRENCH U-TURN ON IRAQ WAR (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1084093,00.html)
France has announced it could assist any US-led military coalition if Iraq uses chemical and biological weapons.

The turnaround comes after strong French opposition to a war in Iraq, including threats to veto a UN Security Council resolution paving the way for armed conflict.

French ambassador Jean-David Levitte said: "If Saddam Hussein were to use chemical and biological weapons, this would change the situation completely and immediately for the French government."

Mr Levitte said a decision on any French participation in the war would be made by French President Jacques Chirac, if and when biological or chemical weapons were used.

Although he declined to give details on the possible shape of French participation, Levitte said, "We have equipment to fight in these circumstances."

eagle3...They are fence sitters........but...ohhhhhh Mr Chirac is now going to back us all... if ...Iraq uses chemical or biological weapons......duh.......what a furking moron......that is partially what this war is about.....! To stop them using same.

[greensparkle]

Originally posted by JBMoney
.
Very funny jb$ ...is Bordeaux still safe...lol..if so, all is good .... only yoking!!

[shotglass]

I thought the frogs have been saying all along that they saw no proof of Iraq having these weapons. Now they sound like they are saying they know Hussein has them but won't use them? Am I getting that right?

[Eagle3]

Originally posted by shotglass
I thought the frogs have been saying all along that they saw no proof of Iraq having these weapons. Now they sound like they are saying they know Hussein has them but won't use them? Am I getting that right?

That's my take as well. They see their fat contracts with Saddam's regime about to get shredded. Since they can't have it all anymore, they're going to want to get at least a piece by being there to help in the liberation.

What pisses me off is I bet we'll let them in on the action in the interest of improving our relations. Maybe we'll think we need their cooperation with North Korea, who knows.

I'll just be curious to see what the world reaction will be like if French/Iraqi collusion is found to be a lot more than we even suspect.

[Eddy's Geist]

Damn, that was funny... hehehe

I started thinking of a german version but ya know... Germany just doesn't seem to have any engineering wonders that scream out "Deutchland!"

There is the Nurenberg stadium... but that's just massive and intimidating. There's the Berlin Wall but that's already down and it wouldn't be any big loss if a plane were to punch a hole in it.

Hmmm.. why don't the germans have any bad ass skyscrapers? Have I just touched upon an aspect of the german psyche that has yet to be discussed here?

Are the people who gave birth to one half of the Geist family afraid to build something that has personality and tosses utilitarian purpose aside in a rampage to build for the sake of building?

[gopsdragon]

"Thanks, but no thanks, France. This may be the French concept of glory. But there are other, unmentionable words for it in English."
--Washinton Times

France Snaps at British Jibes, Clarifies Help Offer
By Tom Heneghan

PARIS (Reuters) - France denounced British attacks on its Iraq (news - web sites) policy on Wednesday as Paris sought to pick up the pieces after defying heavy pressure from Washington and London to support the looming war against Baghdad.

Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin pronounced himself "shocked and saddened" at seeing France berated for threatening to veto any pro-war resolution at the United Nations (news - web sites) and said such attacks were beneath a friend and European partner.

His protest call to Foreign Secretary Jack Straw came as Paris had to clarify remarks by its ambassador in Washington that gave the false impression that France would join the fight in Iraq if Baghdad used chemical or biological weapons.

At the same time, his ministry issued a statement welcoming French-British cooperation in the European Union (news - web sites)'s agreement on Tuesday to take over NATO (news - web sites)'s peacekeeping mission in Macedonia.

"The French authorities were shocked and saddened by what members of the British government said during the recent debates in the House of Commons," a Foreign Ministry statement said, referring to Tuesday's heated parliamentary debate over Iraq.

"We can well understand the internal pressure being exerted on the British government. But the words used were not worthy of a country which is both a friend and a European partner.

"This presentation of the facts does not give a true picture of actual events and deceives no one."

A diplomatic source said Villepin also urged Straw to reject firmly any suggestion France was to blame for the failure of U.N. efforts to convince Iraq to disarm through peaceful means.

Villepin was due at the U.N. Security Council later on Wednesday to hear the latest report from chief arms inspector Hans Blix, a step meant to underline France's view that the United Nations remained central to solving the Iraq crisis.


BLAIR BLASTS CHIRAC

British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) bitterly castigated French leaders on Tuesday for what he called their misguided and profoundly dangerous stand that blocked the U.S. and U.K.-backed resolution and benefited Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).

Arguing that Saddam only responded to threats, Blair said: "And yet when that fact is so obvious that it is staring us in the face, we are told that any resolution that authorizes force will be vetoed.

"Not just opposed. Vetoed. Blocked. The tragedy is that had such a resolution been issued, he might just have complied."

French President Jacques Chirac shocked Britain last week by vowing to veto any war resolution "whatever the circumstances."

Straw termed it "extraordinary" that he rejected last-minute British compromise proposals even before Saddam did.

Guy Teissier, head of the National Assembly's defense committee and a member of Chirac's center-right UMP party, also rejected the vituperative attacks fired from across the Channel.

"I think it's a way out to avoid or disguise the defeat of the resolution of the British, Americans and Spanish," he told France's i-television. "Actually, the solution would have been to have given more time (to the arms inspections)."

France's ambassador in Washington, Jean-David Levitte, appeared to offer an olive branch to the United States on Tuesday when he told CNN that France could help the U.S.-led military coalition if Baghdad used biological or chemical arms.

But French diplomats in Paris made clear this was not a change in France's refusal to join the war. "It is obvious we wouldn't sit back and not help if there was a chemical attack. But what we are talking about is medical assistance," one said.

"Thanks, but no thanks, France," the conservative Washington Times wrote. "This may be the French concept of glory. But there are other, unmentionable words for it in English."

[JBMoney]

Unknown source, possibly a repost...

The Complete Military History of France

Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

The Dutch War
- Tied

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."

[shotglass]

Originally posted by JBMoney

Dien Bien Flu



:laugh:

[Eagle3]

Priceless... this is going up on my wall. :)

[gopsdragon]

The train was very crowded, so the soldier walked the length of the train, looking for an empty seat. The only unoccupied seat was directly adjacent to a well dressed middle aged lady and was being used by her little dog.

The war weary soldier asked, "Please, ma'am, may I sit in that seat?"

The French woman looked down her nose at the soldier, sniffed and said, "You Americans. You are such a rude class of people. Can't you see my Little Fife is using that seat?"

The soldier walked away, determined to find a place to rest, but
after another trip down to the end of the train, found himself again facing the woman with the dog.

Again he asked, "Please, lady. May I sit there? I'm very tired."

The French woman wrinkled her nose and snorted, "You Americans! Not only are you rude, you are also arrogant. Imagine!"

The soldier didn't say anything else; he leaned over, picked up the
little dog, tossed it out the window of the train and sat down in the empty seat.

The woman shrieked and railed, and demanded that someone defend her and chastise the soldier.

An English gentleman sitting across the aisle spoke up, "You know, sir, you Americans do seem to have a penchant for doing the wrong thing. You eat holding the fork in the wrong hand. You drive your autos on the wrong side of the road. And now, sir, you've thrown the wrong bitch out the window .

[evereno]

JB's history lesson was much better than the following, but I just had to share:

In preparation for a major French statement of position on the Iraq war, French President Chirac and French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin ordered a careful study of French military history. They learned the following.

France led the hasty retreat from the Holy Lands at the end of the disastrous Second Crusade!

The badly out-numbered English defeated and conquered France in 1415 at Agincourt!

The French lost the French-and-Indian War, and Canada as well, in the 1760's!

Napoleon led the French Army into a final, crushing defeat at Waterloo in the early 1800's!

Prussia, a mere district of present day Germany, whipped the French during the short French-Prussian War of 1880!

America had to rescue France from Germany during WWI!

The French surrendered, and ever so quickly, to the Germans in 1940!

The Vietnamese overran the French at Dien Bien Phu in the early 1950's!

The Algerians defeated Chiraq and the rest of the French in the Algerian War of the 1950's!

Even France's tiny former African colonies expelled the French military in the 1960's!

At this point, Chirac and Villepin had enough information! It took them hours of painful labor, but they heroically drafted a cunning French statement of position on the Iraq War! It boldly read: "As far as France is concerned, war is always a failure!"

[Pistol Pete]

:cool:

[Laurie]

:hehe:


For your online viewing pleasure (http://www.fuckfrance.com/)


More where that came from (http://www.francestinks.com/)

[Laurie]

One more for your reading enjoyment (http://www.bigboots.us/)

[Eagle3]

Excellent Laurie! Thanks. :)

[Eagle3]

:hehe:

[cuda]

"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes." - Mark Twain.

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." - General George S. Patton.

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - Norman Schwartzkopf.

"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it." - Marge Simpson

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure" Jacques Chirac, President of France "As far as France is concerned, you're right." - Rush Limbaugh,

"The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee." - Regis Philbin.

"The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whisky I don't know." - P.J O'Rourke (1989).


"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it." - John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona.

"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He is French, people." - Conan O'Brien

"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get Hitler out of France either" - Jay Leno.

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." - David Letterman

War without France would be like ... uh ... World War II.

"The favorite bumper sticker in Washington D.C. right now is one that says 'First Iraq, then France.'" - Tom Brokaw.

"What do you expect from a culture and a nation that exerted more of its national will fighting against DisneyWorld and Big Macs than the Nazis?" - Dennis Miller

"It is important to remember that the French have always been there when they needed us." - Alan Kent

[Laurie]

I'm curious. What does everyone think about the fact that France wants to be involved in helping to rebuild post-war Iraq? Should we allow the UN to step in, even after outward betrayals by both?

[evereno]

'Freedom Toast' Served on Air Force One
Thu Mar 27, 9:37 AM ET

MACDILL AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. (Reuters) - On President Bush's Air Force One flight to Florida on Wednesday it was au revoir French toast, hello "Freedom toast."



"Stuffed Freedom Toast" topped the breakfast menu, in a subtle slap at the French for helping to confound U.S. attempts to get the U.N. Security Council to authorize military force against Iraq.


The name change for the venerable breakfast dish -- in this case stuffed with cream cheese -- followed similar moves by the U.S. Congress and some restaurants across the country to change "French fries" to "Freedom fries."


White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, asked about the newly titled "Freedom toast," smiled and said, "We're always proud of the men and women of our Air Force."


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&u=/nm/20030327/od_nm/odd_toast_dc&printer=1

[evereno]

Originally posted by Laurie
I'm curious. What does everyone think about the fact that France wants to be involved in helping to rebuild post-war Iraq? Should we allow the UN to step in, even after outward betrayals by both?

As a ticked off American, I would say, screw both. However, the reality is, in our mode (questionable need) to ease tensions there must be a role for both. THat role should be clean up the debris, but policy should be left to the Coalition leaders.

[shotglass]

Have not heard too much about this, but I hear the Frogs over there are desecrating the graves of our boys who stayed there.

If that is true, I would hope we can find a nice way to return the favor.

Bring them home, and let them rest here at home, where they are appreciated, not in a land that is good only for supporting terrorism.

[JBMoney]

*cough* front page *cough*

I think the big incident was involving Brit graves. The Sun has pictures.

[JBMoney]

I can't believe I beat Stibroker to the inevitable picture post.

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003150352,00.jpg

[Eddy's Geist]

Rosbeefs?

Now.. if they had called us "hamburglers" or something then those would be fightin' words.

[shotglass]

Originally posted by JBMoney
*cough* front page *cough*



:OOPS: I should go there more often.....makes note.

[Butterlugs]

can someone translate

[Eagle3]

Originally posted by Eddy's Geist
Rosbeefs?

Now.. if they had called us "hamburglers" or something then those would be fightin' words.

I understand that it's a slang word they have for Brits.

[STIBROKER]

Originally posted by JBMoney
I can't believe I beat Stibroker to the inevitable picture post.

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003150352,00.jpg

damn....go to bed early and look what happens.....

[JBMoney]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003150899,00.html

The showpiece cenotaph at the graveyard in Northern France was smeared in red paint with the words: “Dig up your rubbish. It’s fouling our soil.”

Other slogans at the Etaples cemetery near Boulogne included “Death to the Yankees” and “Saddam Hussein will win and spill your blood.”

And the vandals wrote “Rosbeefs go home” — the French insult for Brits is roast-beefs. Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush were also branded war criminals.

[Laurie]

After all the shit we've done for them. :fbomb: :mad: :cry:

[JDub]

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

[Eddy's Geist]

LOL! I bet the room got quiet!

Damn, Powell rocks so bad.

[JDub]

http://world-liberation.us/Resources/Image463.gif

[gopsdragon]

Originally posted by shotglass
If that is true, I would hope we can find a nice way to return the favor.

I don't say this jokingly.

In order to return the favor, one would have to assume the chickenshits actually laid down some of their lives defending something worthwhile.

As far as I know, Federic Bastiat died of natural causes.

[JDub]

From an email:

A friend of mine is an officer in the naval reserve. A few weeks ago, he was attending a conference that included admirals in both the US and the French navies. At a cocktail reception, my friend found himself in a small group that included an admiral from each of the two navies.

The French admiral started complaining that whereas Europeans learned many languages, Americans only learned English. He then asked. "Why is it that we have to speak English in these conferences rather than you have to speak French?"

Without even hesitating, the American admiral replied. "Maybe it is
because we arranged it so that you did not have to learn to speak German." The group became silent.

[gopsdragon]

A new video game fro