Tom Delay indicted

[armando32]

Tom Delay indicted. Yikes!


Texas grand jury on Wednesday charged Rep. Tom DeLay and two political associates with conspiracy in a campaign finance scheme, an indictment that could force him to step down as House majority leader. :smokin:

Here is the link...



http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-09-28-DeLay-investigation_x.htm

[Farouka Hookah]

its a damn shame.... :OOPS:

[JBMoney]

Good. Maybe the Reps can find a fiscal conservative to run the house. I think there may be a couple left.

[armando32]

Good. Maybe the Reps can find a fiscal conservative to run the house. I think there may be a couple left.


David Drierer is his replacement. I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of GOP control of the US government.

[Rguess21]

I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of GOP control of the US government.

There's a stretch.

[armando32]

There's a stretch.


Oh really? You guys currently have majorities of Governors, Congress the White House and the Judicary.


You are going to lose the White house, You are going to lose Arnold in California, you just lost your leader in the House, and that Democrat Marine from Ohio could take out any GOP Congressman and the judges are going to turn liberal in 2-5 years.... The GOP are at the hieght of power and has become arrogant its is only going to be downhill from here...

[shotglass]

Time will tell, but when the news about Ronnie Earle's failed political indictments of Kay Bailey Hutchison gets out, he might not be so eager to continue the DeLay witch hunt. How many millions of dollars did he spend of taxpayer money, trying to convict KBH of the same things Ann Richards did...

While you're at it, read an article titled Dollars for Dismissals (http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200506200910.asp), which delves into some of Earle's shadier dealings with corporations.

[Farouka Hookah]

Time will tell, but when the news about Ronnie Earle's failed political indictments of Kay Bailey Hutchison gets out, he might not be so eager to continue the DeLay witch hunt. How many millions of dollars did he spend of taxpayer money, trying to convict KBH of the same things Ann Richards did...

While you're at it, read an article titled Dollars for Dismissals (http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200506200910.asp), which delves into some of Earle's shadier dealings with corporations.


How can a guy whose nickname is the "hammer" be the victom? ;)

[RicardoHead]

Personally I think Armando is kinda right here. I think the GOP will lose one house of Congress on 06, and if not in 08. Main reason is the GOP has radically disappointed fiscal conservatives and non-partisans alike (both of which I am). The electorate basically consists of about 70% party-liners who vote based on the initial by the guy's name and 30% who get to decide for real (non-partisans). Piss off or disappoint the NPs and you lose. In the GOP's case they've disappointed me by governing fiscally like the Dems of the 70s, and I don't doubt that this has pissed off quite a number of their party-liners. These are the same folk who fled the GOP in 92 for Perot, and they'll do it again.

I've said before I'd take Dubya to Gore or Kerry, but I wish there were a real option on the table.

And Armando, the odds of the GOP losing the Whitehouse in 08 are 50/50. That sure as hell isn't certain.

[shotglass]

How can a guy whose nickname is the "hammer" be the victom? ;)

That's a simple recipe. Take one part out-of-control Democrat prosecutor, three parts go before the grand jury, and one hudred parts partisan liberal media. Shaken, not stirred. Bake on Fahrenheit 451 for four hours. Serve cold. :p

[Farouka Hookah]

That's a simple recipe. Take one part out-of-control Democrat prosecutor, three parts go before the grand jury, and one hudred parts partisan liberal media.


Is that the same liberal media that help Bush drum up support for war?

Im still amazed that a) a guy nicknamed the "hammer" b) a party that controls all three branches of government and c) many of the same people who wanted to hang Clinton for getting a BJ are not the victoms. Spare me the drama.... :bore:

This Delay thing will pass as the prosecuter isnt that great, but the real story that is the investigation of GOP hack Jack Abramoff. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53609-2004Jul15.html)

[JBMoney]

Friday, July 16, 2004

Yeah, hot one.

[Farouka Hookah]

Yeah, hot one.

It was hard to find an article that dealth more with Abramoff and less with Delay, even though they have connections. Its an ongoing investigation.

Here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/27/AR2005092700980.html) is another article that mentions Abramoff but I thought it confused the issue.

[brianw13a]

Is that the same liberal media that help Bush drum up support for war?

Im still amazed that a) a guy nicknamed the "hammer" b) a party that controls all three branches of government and c) many of the same people who wanted to hang Clinton for getting a BJ are not the victoms. Spare me the drama.... :bore:


While I think that the media tends to be liberal, I really think they stupid above all else. It really shows in breaking news stories of the 9/11 and Katrina type. Facts are replaced by rumors and emotion.

I'd also like to ask:

a.) What does a nickname have to do with anything?
b.) You'd be very hard pressed to prove that the right controls the judical branch especially after the recent eminent domain verdict.
c.) While I think that people were less than pleased with the BJ incident, he did commit perjury which is a crime.

That being said, if DeLay is guilty then he should face the consequences.

I wish our governor (R) would do the decent thing an resign - but then again it would be the first decent thing he's done in office.
Gov Taft (http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050829/NEWS24/508290339&SearchID=73221855337188)

I can defend my parties principles but I cannot always defend those in my party and anyone who says they can are fools.

[armando32]

Personally I think Armando is kinda right here. I think the GOP will lose one house of Congress on 06, and if not in 08. Main reason is the GOP has radically disappointed fiscal conservatives and non-partisans alike (both of which I am). The electorate basically consists of about 70% party-liners who vote based on the initial by the guy's name and 30% who get to decide for real (non-partisans). Piss off or disappoint the NPs and you lose. In the GOP's case they've disappointed me by governing fiscally like the Dems of the 70s, and I don't doubt that this has pissed off quite a number of their party-liners. These are the same folk who fled the GOP in 92 for Perot, and they'll do it again.

I've said before I'd take Dubya to Gore or Kerry, but I wish there were a real option on the table.

And Armando, the odds of the GOP losing the Whitehouse in 08 are 50/50. That sure as hell isn't certain.


Makes sense. Although i would add they have more than alienated the middle and/or the non partisan, they have really galvanized the left. I proboly overstated the certianty, but i cant see anyone out of the GOP that wont get stuck with all of GW baggage, John McCain maybe but i dont think the GOP establishment really supports him....


:cool:

[wrecker05]

Makes sense. Although i would add they have more than alienated the middle and/or the non partisan, they have really galvanized the left. I proboly overstated the certianty, but i cant see anyone out of the GOP that wont get stuck with all of GW baggage, John McCain maybe but i dont think the GOP establishment really supports him....


:cool:

Galvanized the left? Since when has the Left voted GOP?

[shotglass]

My question is this: What is the left going to say when DeLay walks?

[armando32]

Galvanized the left? Since when has the Left voted GOP?

I meant galvanized the left to beat the GOP

[armando32]

My question is this: What is the left going to say when DeLay walks?


Walks to the "big house" ?? :rolleyes:

[shotglass]

Okay, I'll rephrase, since you have trouble with the obvious.

What is the left going to say when Earle fails to get a conviction against DeLay?

[Farouka Hookah]

Okay, I'll rephrase, since you have trouble with the obvious.

What is the left going to say when Earle fails to get a conviction against DeLay?

"Untill next time...." :hehe:

Now or later he will fall. Whether I disagree or not I envy his political skills and the way he has created a powerhouse out of the fringe right.

[RicardoHead]

FREE DeLay OR BURN L.A.!






Oh wait, that's OJ. Anyone want to go into the T-shirt biz with me?

[shotglass]

"Untill next time...." :hehe:



Hell, it took Earle three tries just to get DeLay's name on an indictment. That tells everyone that his case against TDL is pretty weak. Either Earle found some new evidence, doctored evidence, or finally found that OJ jury he needed.

[armando32]

Hell, it took Earle three tries just to get DeLay's name on an indictment. That tells everyone that his case against TDL is pretty weak. Either Earle found some new evidence, doctored evidence, or finally found that OJ jury he needed.

I think the law in Texas is clear...you cant take contributions from corporations. Ofcourse money laundering now is on the plate ... :!!!:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-03-delay-indicted_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

[Farouka Hookah]

I think the law in Texas is clear...you cant take contributions from corporations. Ofcourse money laundering now is on the plate ... :!!!:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-03-delay-indicted_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA


Its time to use his card........................

[armando32]

Its time to use his card........................



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[shotglass]

Its time to use his card........................

Don't you think he should be found guilty at trial before you put him in jail?

You leftists keep complaining about the Patriot Act, and how we're losing all our freedoms, but you're more than willing to take away DeLay's right to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. Why is that? Afraid the case isn't going to hold up to scrutiny?

[Farouka Hookah]

Don't you think he should be found guilty at trial before you put him in jail?

You leftists keep complaining about the Patriot Act, and how we're losing all our freedoms, but you're more than willing to take away DeLay's right to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. Why is that? Afraid the case isn't going to hold up to scrutiny?

FYI, I dont have the power to take away Delay's rights, though he has the power to take away mine. Oh im not afriad that it wont hold up. Whether its now or later he will slip up. He has gotton too arrogant and sloppy. But hey, I'll wait and see.

Oh well, Bush didnt present proof of WMD but we are in Iraq anyway. :thumbsup: (I know that was low, and mostly irrelevant to our discussion here but I couldnt resist).

[armando32]

Don't you think he should be found guilty at trial before you put him in jail?

You leftists keep complaining about the Patriot Act, and how we're losing all our freedoms, but you're more than willing to take away DeLay's right to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. Why is that? Afraid the case isn't going to hold up to scrutiny?


Good point. What i think me a faroukah are responding to is now one the GOP's dirtiest politicans will now have his day in court....

Keep in mind it is in the GOP's rhetoric that this whole thing is a "witch hunt" and uneccessary inthe first place. I feel it to be very neccessary and timely.. :thumbsup:

[shotglass]

Yahoo news. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051004/pl_nm/delay_dc) - AUSTIN, Texas (Reuters) - A Texas grand jury on Monday indicted U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay on two new charges including money laundering, following a conspiracy indictment last week which forced him to step aside as the second-ranking Republican in the U.S. House of Representatives.

The charges accuse DeLay of conspiring with two colleagues to launder $190,000 in corporate contributions to his Texans for a Republican Majority through the Republican National Committee for distribution to candidates for the Texas Legislature in 2002.

DeLay's defense team had filed a motion earlier on Monday to dismiss the first indictment on grounds the conspiracy charge did not apply to Texas elections until September 2003, said DeLay lawyer Dick Deguerin.

"He is trying to pull the legal equivalent of a 'do-over' since he knows very well that the charges he brought against me last week are totally manufactured and illegitimate. This is an abomination of justice," DeLay said in a statement issued by his office.

Full story. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051004/pl_nm/delay_dc)

[shotglass]

Keep in mind it is in the GOP's rhetoric that this whole thing is a "witch hunt" and uneccessary inthe first place. I feel it to be very neccessary and timely.. :thumbsup:

Sort of like a 'vast left-wing conspiracy', eh? I still contend that the evidence Earle has is thin, which is why he had to go before three grand juries before getting an indictment.

And you can't place much stock in any jury. OJ walked against overwhelming evidence.

[armando32]

Sort of like a 'vast left-wing conspiracy', eh? I still contend that the evidence Earle has is thin, which is why he had to go before three grand juries before getting an indictment.

And you can't place much stock in any jury. OJ walked against overwhelming evidence.


I thought you believed inthe judicial process??? :rolleyes:

[wrecker05]

I thought you believed inthe judicial process??? :rolleyes:

I do.
:idiot:

Except when the judicial system is used as a "political tool". :Z:

[JBMoney]

Its time to use his card........................

Did he get one of those from Clinton? I think it's probably expired.

[armando32]

I do.
:idiot:

Except when the judicial system is used as a "political tool". :Z:

:scary:

Money laundering is illegal. I dont think Delay even challanges that fact. All he says is that "This is a witch hunt" and attempts to use rhetoric rather than facts. None of these guys in Washington debate that the transfers of money from political action committees to party committees happens all the time. That iswhat Delay did... the problem is that corporate contributions are illegal in Texas and he was trying to d a end run around that law to get GOP representitives in Texas elected.

He is the biggest and most glaring example of using a government system as a political tool...

[Pistol Pete]

The jury has not yet begun and you're already condeming the man on supposed alligations. If he's guilty, then so be it. Give the screwed up system a chance to work. You jump on a sound-bite and proclaim it to be the gospel.

Gee, why don't you give us a tour of Bill Clinton's and Al Gore's money laundering of drugs, weapons, and the technology transfers to the Chinese government to secure favors and twisted votes? That amounts to treason according to our Constitution.

The most glaring political tool is Ted Kennedy. He has been, and will be, until he dies.

You just whine, whine, whine. Yip, yip, yip.

[RicardoHead]

The most glaring political tool is Ted Kennedy. He has been, and will be, until he dies.
And he's the "biggest" too!. Biggol'fukin head.

[Farouka Hookah]

And he's the "biggest" too!. Biggol'fukin head.


Karl Rove is not far behind. What ever happened to the White House leak, aka, outing a CIA asset?

[shotglass]

Karl Rove is not far behind. What ever happened to the White House leak, aka, outing a CIA asset?

:Z: :Z:

[armando32]

:Z: :Z:


Wake up shottie there is breaking news Tom Delay was indicted!
:Poke:

[shotglass]

A ham sandwich can be indicted if you get a jury that doesn't care about the evidence presented (a direct admission by the foreman of the grand jury that returned the first indictment).

Let's see if monkey-boy can get a conviction in front of a real jury.

[shotglass]

Washington Times (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051007-120137-5865r.htm) Rep. Tom DeLay said District Attorney Ronnie Earle, who is prosecuting him for trying to involve corporate money in Texas politics, has taken such contributions himself.

"It's real interesting he has this crusade against corporate funds. He took corporate funds, and he's taken union funds, for his own re-election. That's against the law," Mr. DeLay told The Washington Times yesterday."

A review of Mr. Earle's campaign-finance filings in Texas shows that he has received contributions from the AFL-CIO, including a $250 donation on Aug. 29, 2000. He also has received contributions listed on the disclosure forms only as coming from the name of an incorporated entity, often a law firm.

Mr. Earle has said repeatedly that state law bars corporate and union contributions. Attempts to reach Mr. Earle yesterday for comment, including a phone message left on his assistant's voice mail detailing Mr. DeLay's charge, were unsuccessful.

Full story. (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051007-120137-5865r.htm)

OOOPS

You got that right. Who gets to prosecute Ronnie Earle for breaking the law? :whip:

[shotglass]

Breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/11/D8D66AU00.html) - Indicted Rep. Tom DeLay's defense team tried Tuesday to serve Texas prosecutor Ronnie Earle with a subpoena, but Earle refused to accept it, DeLay lawyer Dick DeGuerin said.

Alleging misconduct with grand jurors, the defense team wants to compel Earle to explain his behavior.

The defense lawyer, who is trying to get the indictments dismissed, said an assistant district attorney also refused to accept her subpoena, but a second assistant accepted the subpoena delivered to him. Acceptance simply involves signing a paper acknowledging delivery.

The subpoenas asked that the prosecutor and the two assistants appear in court or submit to a deposition in which the defense lawyers would question them.

DeGuerin also asked that grand jurors be released from their secrecy oath so they could answer questions about the prosecutor's conduct.

Full story. (http://)

Like armando said, OOOOOPPPSSSS!!! Ol' Ronnie got himself treed by a tiger of his own making. :laugh: I can't wait to see Earle do the perp walk.

[shotglass]

Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3397339)

They don't have list of candidates at the heart of the laundering case, just a 'similar' one

AUSTIN - Travis County prosecutors admitted Friday they lack physical proof of a list of Republican candidates that is at the heart of money-laundering indictments against U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay and two of his associates.


The list is key to prosecutors being able to prove that corporate money that could not be legally spent on Texas candidates was specifically exchanged at the national level for donations that legally could be spent on Republican candidates for the Texas House.

But prosecutors said Friday in court that they only had a "similar" list and not the one allegedly received by then-RNC Deputy Director Terry Nelson. Late in the day, they released a list of 17 Republican candidates, but only seven are alleged to have received money in the scheme.

A lawyer for Ellis said prosecutors' inability to produce the list mentioned in the indictments is on par with the tactics used by U.S. Sen. Joseph McCarthy in the communist witch hunts of the 1950s.

DeLay's lawyer, Dick DeGuerin of Houston, was not present in court Friday. But he later said the lack of a list "destroys" District Attorney Ronnie Earle's case against the three men.

"That's astonishing, astonishing that they would get a grand jury to indict and allege there is a list and then they have to admit in open court the first time they appear in open court that there is no list," DeGuerin said.

Full story. (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3397339)

[shotglass]

This is from the same Houston Chronicle story, but I thought I would separate it to show how Ronnie Earle is getting desperate to save face in this matter. It's at the end of the HC story.

...Pauerstein also blasted prosecutors for a new set of subpoenas that he said includes a request for the 2002 phone records of Ellis' daughter.

"On top of that, they are now subpoenaing cell phone records of Jim Ellis' 17-year-old daughter. This is a prosecution that has run amok. It's time for this to stop," Pauerstein said. "I guess they think Jim's 17-year-old daughter is a money launderer. I think it's outrageous that they're doing that to the young lady."

Earle responded to Pauerstein's comments by saying, "The investigation is continuing."

Source. (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3397339)

[Farouka Hookah]

Looks more like a campaign photo but its his mugshot.

[shotglass]

Haven't heard this one yet, but I'm sure there's liberal websites out there howling mad because he isn't wearing an orange jumpsuit. :laugh:

[armando32]

Haven't heard this one yet, but I'm sure there's liberal websites out there howling mad because he isn't wearing an orange jumpsuit. :laugh:


I think the Congressional pin is a nice touch for a mugshot....

[glockmail]

Prediction: This case gets thrown out of court within three weeks, then the media will deep six it on the bottom of page 12.

[armando32]

Prediction: This case gets thrown out of court within three weeks, then the media will deep six it on the bottom of page 12.


Hmmm two weeks and counting...case is still pending... and now we have obstruction of justice for Libby

:o

[wrecker05]

Hmmm two weeks and counting...case is still pending... and now we have obstruction of justice for Libby

:o


Well I gather from your comments, that you are able to count. :p

:Poke:

Just remember to watch the news,(not commentary) :Poke:

[shotglass]

LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-110105delay_lat,0,4692462.story?coll=la-story-footer&track=morenews) - WASHINGTON -- Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay won the first skirmish in his conspiracy and money laundering case today when a Texas judge was removed from presiding over the trial after DeLay's attorneys showed he has been a significant financial contributor to Democratic causes.

District Judge Robert Perkins of Travis County, Texas, was removed at the close of a hearing in the state capital in Austin when a separate Texas district judge, brought out of retirement, ruled that Perkins' history of making 34 donations in the last five years to Democratic candidates and organizations suggested he would not be impartial in hearing the trial of the Republican member of Congress.

Perkins had sought to hang on to the job overseeing the trial. But legal papers filed last month by DeGuerin showed the judge consistently sent money to Democratic coffers, including contributions to the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, John Kerry, and the Democratic advocacy group, MoveOn.org.

In addition, he donated $35 last January and $120 in May to the Texas Democratic Party, all after the money-laundering case was assigned to his court.

Travis County Dist. Atty. Ronnie Earle, himself a Democrat who brought a series of grand jury indictments against DeLay and several of his Republican associates, had sought to keep Perkins on the case. Earle viewed Perkins as fair, and not one to allow his political leanings to dictate his handling of the upcoming high-profile trial.

Full story. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-110105delay_lat,0,4692462.story?coll=la-story-footer&track=morenews)

[wrecker05]

Corruption run wild I tell you. :confused:

Democrats :nolike:

[brianw13a]

Travis County Dist. Atty. Ronnie Earle, himself a Democrat who brought a series of grand jury indictments against DeLay and several of his Republican associates, had sought to keep Perkins on the case. Earle viewed Perkins as fair, and not one to allow his political leanings to dictate his handling of the upcoming high-profile trial.


Anyone who gives money to moveon.org has an axe to grind and there's no getting around it. :thumbsup:

[shotglass]

Anyone who gives money to moveon.org has an axe to grind and there's no getting around it. :thumbsup:

No kidding. That would be like allowing a judge who has given money to the KKK to preside over the OJ trial.

[Farouka Hookah]

No kidding. That would be like allowing a judge who has given money to the KKK to preside over the OJ trial.
How many Texas prosecuters or judges have given money to the GOP or other conservative outlets? Weird how this is a one sided issue. One guy gives money to Moveon.org another gives to (insert right wing or here) but one is right and the other is wrong? Seems to be a double standard to me.

[Spaz59]

How many Texas prosecuters or judges have given money to the GOP or other conservative outlets? Weird how this is a one sided issue. One guy gives money to Moveon.org another gives to (insert right wing or here) but one is right and the other is wrong? Seems to be a double standard to me.

Completely shocking. :rolleyes:

[brianw13a]

How many Texas prosecuters or judges have given money to the GOP or other conservative outlets? Weird how this is a one sided issue. One guy gives money to Moveon.org another gives to (insert right wing or here) but one is right and the other is wrong? Seems to be a double standard to me.

Gee, I didn't mention anything about the Kerry campaign or the Texas Dem party contribs. I wonder why?

If you don't see any difference between moveon.org and any other leftist organization then I guess we don't have anything to talk about.

[shotglass]

How many Texas prosecuters or judges have given money to the GOP or other conservative outlets? Weird how this is a one sided issue. One guy gives money to Moveon.org another gives to (insert right wing or here) but one is right and the other is wrong? Seems to be a double standard to me.

I used the KKK specifically because they are a far right hate group, while MoveOn.org is a far left hate group.

[Farouka Hookah]

I used the KKK specifically because they are a far right hate group, while MoveOn.org is a far left hate group.
There is no comparison. How can hating people based on race and advocating for a liberal policy be the same? :what:

I think most on the right hate MoveOn.org becasue they are effective as opposed to most leftist orgs. Moveon uses much of the same tactics as Washingtons high priced right wing orgs and lobbying firms.

[brianw13a]

There is no comparison. How can hating people based on race and advocating for a liberal policy be the same? :what:

I think most on the right hate MoveOn.org becasue they are effective as opposed to most leftist orgs. Moveon uses much of the same tactics as Washingtons high priced right wing orgs and lobbying firms.

Be careful with this one Farouka. if you can condone the use of name-calling and outright lies then I'll lose all respect for you. And yes I can provide references :thumbsup:

[Farouka Hookah]

Be careful with this one Farouka. if you can condone the use of name-calling and outright lies then I'll lose all respect for you. And yes I can provide references :thumbsup:

I dont condone it from either side, but right wing orgs invented this type of action. The right is upset becasue Moveon.org uses their own tactics against them.

[glockmail]

... right wing orgs invented this type of action. ....

Prove this accusation.

[Farouka Hookah]

Prove this accusation.
Fox News. Need I say more.

[brianw13a]

Fox News. Need I say more.

Yes you need, because although I don't like fox, I don't see where they resort to name calling and lies.

[Farouka Hookah]

Yes you need, because although I don't like fox, I don't see where they resort to name calling and lies.
Bill Oreilly spends a lot of time name calling and spreading lies. Also the Weekly Standard is another right wing attack machine.

[brianw13a]

Bill Oreilly spends a lot of time name calling and spreading lies. Also the Weekly Standard is another right wing attack machine.

Well okay you got me on the O'Reilly name-calling thing but in all honesty he is an equal opporunity offender. I don't recall him spreading lies though. Maybe it's because I stopped watching several years ago.

I'd never heard of the Weekly Standard but in looking at their site I would have to say that they don't engage in name-calling or lying. You may not agree with them but that doesn't make them on the same level as moveon.org.

You gave money to moveon didn't you Farouka? Come on admit it. You know you did. Come on just admit it a little. :Poke:

[glockmail]

Fox News. Need I say more. Yes, you will need to say a lot more.

Or, next time I come up with a BS accusation, I can just say "PBS"?

WTF? :shrug:

[glockmail]

Bill Oreilly spends a lot of time name calling and spreading lies. Also the Weekly Standard is another right wing attack machine.

Prove this as well.

[brianw13a]

Yes, you will need to say a lot more.

Or, next time I come up with a BS accusation, I can just say "PBS"?

WTF? :shrug:

PBS isn't that bad. Actually I learned a lot more about the Iraq war from PBS than from traditional media and I would say that their reporters were more likely to get out and show the real action rather than stand 10 feet from their hotel and spread rumors.

I'm going to have to break from Reps. view of FNC here. I don't think it's bad but I really don't think you can call it news either. They simply get both sides together to argue. There's no factual information in that. Traditional media doesn't really do anything different either - they just hide it better.

[glockmail]

PBS isn't that bad. Actually I learned a lot more about the Iraq war from PBS than from traditional media and I would say that their reporters were more likely to get out and show the real action rather than stand 10 feet from their hotel and spread rumors.

I'm going to have to break from Reps. view of FNC here. I don't think it's bad but I really don't think you can call it news either. They simply get both sides together to argue. There's no factual information in that. Traditional media doesn't really do anything different either - they just hide it better.

I have not been able to stomach PBS TV in some time. I only partake of NPR (same thing in my book) while driving, and only when there are no legitimate talk shows on. I drive a lot in rural areas and NPR, since it has a big budget from draining my wallet, almost always has a strong signal everywhere.

I find FNC news more balanced than any other TV source. I think that you are refferring to the debate shows here, and there are many which tend to dominate the network.

[shotglass]

Fox News. Need I say more.

One example? That's all you can come up with? Try this out for size:

NY Times, LA Times, NBC, SEEBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Moveon.org, Err America (stealing money from children... :nolike: ), Daily Kos, Arianna Huffington, Michael Moore, Barbara Streisand, Madonna, Green Day...the list goes on. Sounds like you have a lot of media and entertainers (and some outright liars) on your side, and FOX News is all you can point to?

[shotglass]

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051205/pl_nm/delay_dc) - A Texas judge dismissed part of a criminal indictment against U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay on Monday, but upheld other charges that will put the powerful Republican lawmaker on trial for money laundering.

Texas District Judge Pat Priest dismissed conspiracy charges against DeLay and two co-defendants, saying the actions were not a crime at the time DeLay was charged with violating them.

Kevin Madden, a spokesman for DeLay in Washington, portrayed Priest's ruling as a legal victory for the congressman.

"The court's decision to dismiss a portion of Ronnie Earle's manufactured and flawed case against Mr. DeLay underscores just how baseless and politically motivated the charges were," Madden said. Earle is the prosecutor who brought the case.

Full story. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051205/pl_nm/delay_dc)

[LexLuthor]

The GOP odds of loosing the White House are 50/50? Well i'd say you have about a 10% chance of the GOP loosing the white house being a 50% chance. First you have a 5% chance of getting a clean election, then a 3% chance of getting all of the Democrats to vote a 1% shot at finding a Democrat who is actually a Democrat then another 1% chance of not having the Supreme Court step in and just decide for us who the President is. But I agree if we hit the 10% then we definitely will have a 50% chance of getting a Democrat in the White House.

You gotta love those odds.


Personally I think Armando is kinda right here. I think the GOP will lose one house of Congress on 06, and if not in 08. Main reason is the GOP has radically disappointed fiscal conservatives and non-partisans alike (both of which I am). The electorate basically consists of about 70% party-liners who vote based on the initial by the guy's name and 30% who get to decide for real (non-partisans). Piss off or disappoint the NPs and you lose. In the GOP's case they've disappointed me by governing fiscally like the Dems of the 70s, and I don't doubt that this has pissed off quite a number of their party-liners. These are the same folk who fled the GOP in 92 for Perot, and they'll do it again.

I've said before I'd take Dubya to Gore or Kerry, but I wish there were a real option on the table.

And Armando, the odds of the GOP losing the Whitehouse in 08 are 50/50. That sure as hell isn't certain.

[LexLuthor]

Dont worry Farouka he's just kidding. If he lost respect for the use of name calling and outright lies then the word Weapons of Mass Destruction would have made him a Democrat a long time ago.

Cordially,
Lex



Be careful with this one Farouka. if you can condone the use of name-calling and outright lies then I'll lose all respect for you. And yes I can provide references :thumbsup:

[armando32]

The GOP odds of loosing the White House are 50/50? Well i'd say you have about a 10% chance of the GOP loosing the white house being a 50% chance. First you have a 5% chance of getting a clean election, then a 3% chance of getting all of the Democrats to vote a 1% shot at finding a Democrat who is actually a Democrat then another 1% chance of not having the Supreme Court step in and just decide for us who the President is. But I agree if we hit the 10% then we definitely will have a 50% chance of getting a Democrat in the White House.

You gotta love those odds.


Amen.

[JBMoney]

In honor of the last three posts.

http://bressler.org/gallery/files/1/9/hello_bjork.gif

[RicardoHead]

You gotta love those odds.The odds of either party doing anything radically different than the other party are exactly zero.

[Farouka Hookah]

In honor of the last three posts.

http://bressler.org/gallery/files/1/9/hello_bjork.gif

Yeah cause not two people here think the same....:what: ;)

[JBMoney]

there was one?

[Spaz59]

Every other news outlet reports the vatican confirming the death of the late Pope.

Fox reports Fox confirming the death of the late pope.

:p

[shotglass]

Wow, Spaz. You lost me there, care to explain what the heck you are talking about?

[RicardoHead]

I think Spaz has the late Pope mixed up with Peter Jennings.

[Spaz59]

I think Spaz has the late Pope mixed up with Peter Jennings.

I think you're WRONG.

No wait...I know you're WRONG.

HA!

[shotglass]

AccessNorthGeorgia (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEXAS_PRIMARY?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-07-23-29-05) - In his first election since he was indicted and forced to step aside as majority leader, Rep. Tom DeLay held off three challengers to keep the Republican nomination to the U.S. House. Now he faces what many consider the real contest - a general election fight against an organized, well-funded Democrat with a score to settle.

"Democrat attacks and the politics of personal destruction were heavily used by my opponents in this Republican primary, and they were rejected just like they will be in November," DeLay said in a statement.

Full story. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEXAS_PRIMARY?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-07-23-29-05)